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Which Casio Platform for a Homemade Synth?


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I was building my own synth when I discovered the existence of the Casio XW-G1 and bought it.  :D I love it. However I am still thinking of building my own synth. I want to use an inexpensive synth that already has a keyboard/keys and a MIDI interface to start with. My idea is to remove the sound engine and replace it my own homemade one.

 

I understand the Casio electronic insides are well labeled and easy/easier to hack into. I am thinking of using a Casio SA series model. What is the best inexpensive experimental platform for me to try this? You think the SA series or another?

 

A quick Google of the internet gives this...

http://www.codetinkerhack.com/2012/11/how-to-turn-piano-toy-into-midi.html

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I own an SA-76.  I haven't tried taking mine apart yet but it would make a good platform to experiment with I suppose.

 

What I'd really suggest though, is to visit a few garage sales or look at moving sales on craigslist and pick up something that someone is practically giving away.  Even non functional they might actually be literally giving it away.

 

As for building your own synths.  Here's a page full of juicy links on DIY synth construction.

 

http://jfosco.hubpages.com/hub/buildASynth

 

Gary ;)

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I own an SA-76.  I haven't tried taking mine apart yet but it would make a good platform to experiment with I suppose.

 

What I'd really suggest though, is to visit a few garage sales or look at moving sales on craigslist and pick up something that someone is practically giving away.  Even non functional they might actually be literally giving it away.

 

As for building your own synths.  Here's a page full of juicy links on DIY synth construction.

 

http://jfosco.hubpages.com/hub/buildASynth

 

Gary ;)

Thanks Gary good info! 

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If you're going to use MIDI anyway, you could worry about cannibalizing a synth later. Most keyboards already use MIDI internally to communicate between the keyboard and the sound generator, so once your synth is ready, you should be able to adapt. Under development, you can focus on your synth by controlling it with another MIDI keyboard such as your XW-G1.

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How about getting an older keyboard controller with midi din and minimal controls and paste your DIY module into it? There are some sound modules that are very small (like the Yamaha QY series or Roland PMAs) which would literally fit inside some of the keyboard controllers I've seen. Design a way to get the small control panel designed into the controller's structure and bingo, instant custom keyboard. if I blew up my XW-P1, I'd salvage the control panels (which are modular by the way, I know I've dissected mine twice) and re-assemble into a custom panel box with a torqued-out controller keyboard-say an old ensoniq digital piano or a Studiologic or Fatar. Crazy, but could happen! I'm keeping the XW in one piece, for now.

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Most keyboards already use MIDI internally to communicate between the keyboard and the sound generator, so once your synth is ready, you should be able to adapt.

Nope, at least in home keyboards older than year 2000 it is extremely unlikely that non-midi keyboards contain internal midi to access the keys and control panel. Normally they only have a keyboard matrix connected to their main CPU. With some older stuff and all velocity sensitive Casios the keys are even connected through a special non-standard interface IC. Most Casios employ a keyboard matrix grouped by 6 adjacent keys per row.

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How about getting an older keyboard controller with midi din and minimal controls and paste your DIY module into it? There are some sound modules that are very small (like the Yamaha QY series or Roland PMAs) which would literally fit inside some of the keyboard controllers I've seen. Design a way to get the small control panel designed into the controller's structure and bingo, instant custom keyboard. if I blew up my XW-P1, I'd salvage the control panels (which are modular by the way, I know I've dissected mine twice) and re-assemble into a custom panel box with a torqued-out controller keyboard-say an old ensoniq digital piano or a Studiologic or Fatar. Crazy, but could happen! I'm keeping the XW in one piece, for now.

I had considered this but I want to play it, twisting knobs and sliders.  Wasn't sure if there was going to be room for my circuit board(s). But you're I can find or make some room. Great idea! Thanks!

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Here ya go Rusty...  Build one of these :D

 

 

Seriously though I wish Casio could build a cheap knockoff of one of these that wouldn't cost a kidney and bone marrow :(

 

Gary ;)

That's cool! Thanks! Last year in 2013, I have already breadboarded & tested in separate pieces my oscillators, lfos, filters, & amp. Just need to put it all together at one time on one board and put in something with a keyboard I can play it with. During my spare time of course.

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Well, what I meant was that keyboards that have MIDI usually also have MIDI internally. I wasn't even considering keyboards that don't have MIDI externally.

Of course if a keyboard has midi-out for its keys and all controls, you may install inside the case any additional sound source you like, so long it physically fits and doesn't run too hot. Especially modern home keyboards are almost empty (beside ridiculous Yongmei trash tablehooters with polyphony flaws, my newest with tiny PCB was a Casio LK-30), so you even may put a complete laptop or netbook inside that can run all kinds of exotic softsynths to surprise unknowing people.

post-3186-0-65397100-1418443925_thumb.jp

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Check into Arduino parts which many hackers are using to fabricate control interfaces. PAIA used to make all kinds of interesting modular analog control parts to assemble DIY synth modules. Craig Anderton also published a very good electronics book I used to have and I assembled some of his circuit designs for a ring modulator, phase shifter, fuzz box etc. Was good in that it taught me how to make voiltage-controlled circuits, power supplies necessary to power the +/- voltages for some of the old circuitry and early IC chips used (CEM chips were popular for creating sawtooth, sine and PM waves back then.)

 

Look for old electronics books from the TAB electronics book club-I may have one or two of mine left-there were construction designs specifically for making synth circuits and interfaces for keyboards or even simple contact switch synths. Delton Horn (yeah I know strange name for a scientist creating synth circuits!) was one of their best authors for this. Here is a link in Amazon showing at least 2 of his books. The Thomas Henry book was also quite good, I studied all these years back. I think I might have even learned something! :P  Most of the parts in these circuits are now easier to get than back then.

 

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=+music+synthesizers&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3A+music+synthesizers

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Check into Arduino parts which many hackers are using to fabricate control interfaces. PAIA used to make all kinds of interesting modular analog control parts to assemble DIY synth modules. Craig Anderton also published a very good electronics book I used to have and I assembled some of his circuit designs for a ring modulator, phase shifter, fuzz box etc. Was good in that it taught me how to make voiltage-controlled circuits, power supplies necessary to power the +/- voltages for some of the old circuitry and early IC chips used (CEM chips were popular for creating sawtooth, sine and PM waves back then.)

 

Look for old electronics books from the TAB electronics book club-I may have one or two of mine left-there were construction designs specifically for making synth circuits and interfaces for keyboards or even simple contact switch synths. Delton Horn (yeah I know strange name for a scientist creating synth circuits!) was one of their best authors for this. Here is a link in Amazon showing at least 2 of his books. The Thomas Henry book was also quite good, I studied all these years back. I think I might have even learned something! :P  Most of the parts in these circuits are now easier to get than back then.

 

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=+music+synthesizers&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3A+music+synthesizers

Cool, Thanks! I'm still a beginner just playing around with 555 timers and op amps. It sounds good as a single oscillator in test, I want to see what it sounds like when I mix two of these oscillators together by actually building it. And playing it with a keyboard rather than a couple of buttons.

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Hey Cyberyogi, what an idea. Take a small "netbook" with DAWs, VSTs or whatever other software you need, hook it up internally to a usb midi interface to a "dumb' music controller and modify the case so the 7" or 10" netbook screen is now your LCD-use a touchscreen netbook and what a workstation! This may not be as far-fetched an idea as one might think. You could even have a 1TB hard drive in there for storing soundfonts, samples and who knows what else. with some shock-mounting now there would be a killer workstation. I'm thinking about it, seriously. The only problem, and this is a big one-would I want to rely on Windows as my OS platform-not really. And a ipad mini again has some limitations but might be more reliable. And Linux, well is certainly doable but all the "distros" I've installed have trouble with touchscreen deployment-haven't had much success except with specific laptops.

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Jokeyman >>> Easier and lazier to just pick up a ready built Studioblade 4 or the upcoming Studioblade 5 from music computing and be done with it.

 

http://www.musiccomputing.com/studioblade

 

THIS is the ultimate keyboard/controller hack :D :D :D

Interesting specs - seeing a nowadays highend music computer that is truely no laptop. Price starting at just 3999US$, but I guess the really usefull version will be 20000$ - isn't it?!? Weight 42lbs isn't that much, but how is the power consumption (i.e. heat production) of that thing? Is it air- or water-cooled? The touchscreen is only 2-finger-polyphonic, which will not beat the JazzMutant Lemur nor the ubiquitous domestic iPad. IMO there should be finger position sensitive keys or such things (can an additional webcam fix this?) to make use of the enormous 16-core Xeon CPU speed.

It would be interesting to compare the latency (including jitter problems) of this softsynth enthusiast's wet dream with a 1980th Synclavier (the mythical million dollar music mainframe). People always claimed that nothing can beat the Synclavier timing accuracy due to its separate hardware sample playback card architecture. Or has sheer CPU power changed this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synclavier

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By comparison with a Synclavier it's simply not fair to compare the two.

 

As for liquid cooling and hacking on video interfaces, if you have deep pockets and a technical thirst then by all means invest in one and hack away!!! :D

 

The top of the line 88 Key Win version sells for $4449 while the top of the line 88 key Mac version sells for $4849 that's it.

 

http://www.musiccomputing.com/store/home.php?cat=249

 

Of course any additional investments to be made in software, VSTis and DAWs are optional and the sky's the limit, but it ships with a pretty decent software configuration to begin with.

 

My understanding is that their biggest current customers are film company recording studios right now.  I've never seen one perform on stage but if you are recording a soundtrack for a major label or movie studio these things are rapidly becoming the workstations of choice.

 

Gary ;)

 

EDIT   >>>  Actually if you load one up with every single most expensive possible option it prices in at $16,725 total.

 

http://www.musiccomputing.com/store/product.php?productid=17776&cat=249&page=1

 

But seriously, who in their right mind would possibly need all those options for any earthly purpose?

 

2nd EDIT >>> The fully loaded Mac version with silkscreened custom logo is a bargain by comparison at $8092 and change. ;)

 

http://www.musiccomputing.com/store/product.php?productid=17683&cat=249&page=1

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Yes I saw such things on TV in various studio docus. (Was it Westbam who happily boasted about them and wondered why younger people yearn back those heavy analogue tape recorder cabinets those heat the room with hundreds of watt.) Regarding movie soundtrack recording, I always thought Hollywood prefers the Hammond Novachord (full-polyphonic tube synth with really crazy hardware). ;) It would be still interesting to know how the fastest modern DAW would soundwise compete against a Synclavier.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey Rusty, are you going to bield this keybord and then incorperate your program (the one you made of the G1) so that your keybord will have a DAW/Controler?

 

The 'BaxKrashtor'\

 

Larry

That's part of the idea. I'm also going to add an arpeggiator to my G1 step sequencer program. That way some of my synths that don't have arps or step sequencers can be played by the program. I'm looking into VST development now as it currently is a stand alone program.

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