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Can I record in a DAW but have it play CASIO's audio??


Tim727

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Hi all,

 

I've been trying to figure this out for quite a while and finally decided to come on here for help. I got a px350 a couple months ago and love it ... but it quickly became apparent to me that using the 17 track recorder is a massive waste of time. I would like to instead use a DAW so that I will be able to work much more quickly and efficiently. I've already hooked up my piano to my Macbook running GarageBand and can successfully use the CASIO as a midi controller, which is great ... but what I want is this:

 

I want to get the DAW to use the actual CASIO piano sound instead of its own built in sounds. Is there any way to do this? I don't see why there wouldn't be. If something like Kontakt can send audio data to a DAW and ALSO have it record the MIDI then the CASIO should be able to do the same no?

 

Alternatively, if this is not possible ... is there a way for me to do the following sequence of things:

 

(1) Record to the DAW using the piano as a midi controller.

(2) Edit the midi in the DAW

(3) Send the MIDI back to the piano, either directly through the USB cable or via a USB drive such that the piano will effectively load that midi as one of the RECORDER songs and then be able to play it back on the piano using the piano's sounds.

 

Are either of these things possible?? Hopefully both are!

 

I really appreciate any help ... this has been frustrating me to no end because I love the piano's sound but all of my work will be in a DAW from now on ... and it would awful to have to buy a piano virtual instrument just because I can't use the perfectly good (or actually great!) digital piano sound that I already have.

 

Thanks for any help!

 

-Tim

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You can do all that. But read my posts about the PX350 (in that forum) so you will understand some of the PX350's limitations in that regard. I have labored over the PX350 in order to overcome the 17-track sequencer's lack of features. It will respond to any midi file as you would expect, but when recording to a DAW, it becomes a little more complicated since switching midi channels and "tones" is not so straightforward as it would be in a workstation. Again, study my posts and see what you make of all that!

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In order to send MIDI to the 350, you'll have to use another DAW besides GarageBand. That's one of GB's intentional limitations. Lack of MIDI output and controlling external devices makes the application MUCH simpler! I think it doesn't even export MIDI files, though it may be able to with a third-party add-on.

 

[some people tend to jump on the "Apple does that to make you buy Logic. What a rip-off!!!" bandwagon, but I truly believe that Apple did that in GB because controlling MIDI devices is very tricky and would have made GB a lot less obvious for beginning users. They've also made Logic a ridiculous value over the years.]

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Hmm ok. Well I'm probably imminently buying a new (PC) desktop for my music production anyway which will necessitate me buying a new DAW. Do you know by any chance if Cubase Artist would have the functionality I need?

 

And jokeyman, I had actually already looked at most (or maybe all) of your posts before starting this thread, but it wasn't clear to me whether they actually adressed my issue. Forgive me but I'm new to the world of digital/virtual instruments, midi, and DAWS, etc. Is there any chance you could provide me with a simple step by step procedure to get a DAW (such as Cubase etc) to not only record the MIDI from my piano but have it play the piano sound as well? I would greatly appreciate any help! Thanks!

 

And happy new year to you both :)

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I am not overly familiar with Cubase, maybe others here will post, but I have used several freeware midi software programs that will do what you want to do, some much simpler than what I've studied in Cubase. Anvil Studio comes to mind which I use and is freeware. Noteworthy Composer is also on my laptop which creates Grand staff piano notation as you play. Also check something called the "Shareware Music Machine" website at www.hitsquad.com for a huge database of music software including many midi sequencers, freeware, shareware and for purchase.

 

As far as setting the PX350 up to record, remember that MIDI data is just that, computer data sent over your midi cables not live audio content. I assume for this post that you want to record midi data.  Audio data is entirely different and uses cables similar to your home stereo. The PX350 is capable of recording or "transmitting" either or both. "Virtual" instruments are software constructs or designs meant to mimic the look and functionality of a particular hardware instrument-a keyboard, sound effect processor or other musical devices controlled by you on your computer as you would any other software program. 

 

A DAW (digital audio workstation) may be too complex for what you need, you may want just a simple "midi sequencer/recorder".  A true DAW is able to record midi data and audio data and combine the 2 into complete compositions all with one software program, without needing a separate audio recorder and midi sequencer software program. It will record your actual sound live, voice, guitar, acoustic instrument as a tape or digital audio recorder would, but also will record "midi" data.

 

There are programs such as "Audacity" or "Goldwave" and others which will record only audio-like old school tape machines-in your computer and store on your hard drive which can be saved as a "wav" file or "mp3" or other file type and will play the complete recorded sound recorded from the "audio" outputs on whatever you plug into the computer-the computer must have a soundcard with an audio input jack, which typically is a 1/8" stereo miniplug, like an iPod or other headphone/earphone jack and your music device must have some type of audio output-usually a stereo pair of what are called "rca" connectors, or 1/4" jacks, same as a guitar or microphone cable to connect into the computer. Your computer then plays whatever you recorded into it.

 

MIDI is different altogether, and any software progam labelled as a "midi sequencer" can play or record midi data only, which will be saved as a ".mid" format file also called an SMF. The PX350 can do that by itself although it also saves midi data as a "song sequencer" file in it's own format.  Forgive me for talking "down" to you but I'm assuming you don't know any of this, sorry if you already do! Now the PX350 can also record it's own sounds as audio data (check the manual to see how this is done) instead of midi data.  And it can also record external audio sources connected to it's audio in jacks in the back and save this audio data as a .wav file in its internal memory and the USB thumb drive connected to it (midi files and song sequencer data files are also saved internally and on the USB thumb drive but in separate folders). So if you set the PX350 to record your performance as audio data it will do that, and you will find a .wav file on the thumb drive if you connect the thumb drive to your computer and study the contents-look at the manual to see the structure created on the thumb drive by the PX-350, always perform a "format" operation with a thumb drive plugged into the PX350 using the PX350 format command (page E-49 in the manual). This creates the needed folders the PX350 looks for when it stores whatever you are creating-midi or audio data.

 

 I think these distinct functions are necessary to understand to what you want to do. I'll try as simple a tutorial as I can. I am going to assume you will be recording only "midi data" not an actual audio recording of your playing performance.

 

1) Pick and choose as simple a midi sequencer program as you can find online-something that is not overwhelmingly complex-much of this software has been in development for years, and provides dozens of functions, most of which you will not need-sort of like Microsoft Office!

 

2) Install it in your computer-I use laptops which are powerful enough for any music functions you might need as long as it's a relatively new one although a desktop can be more reliable. Most Windows operating system programs will download as a ".zip", ".rar" or "exe" file-which is a "compressed" file-the computer code is "squished" to be a smaller "package" which makes it faster to download and install. You may need a program called winzip or winrar to "decompress" these although windows 7 and 8 have a built-in "decompression" program to do this. Once decompressed, the program will prompt you as to what to do next (It's supposed to!)

 

3) Go to Casio's music website to install the Casio USB driver in your computer. Look for the driver that says digital pianos. if you are using Apple equipment you don't need to do that (I think-I use Windows so not sure about that).

 

http://support.casio.com/en/support/download.php?cid=008&pid=20

 

4) Get either a standard USB cable, the kind used for connecting printers, scanners and other computer USB devices (not the mini or micro USB cables used with tablets or smartphones). Since the PX350 has both USB midi and "DIN" midi connectors, you can also get an inexpensive midi "DIN" to USB cable. I use either, both types will work. Notice the back of the PX350 has the small rectangular USB port and the round 5-pin "DIN" ports. Don't connect anything yet.

 

5) Start the computer first, plug the cable into the computer once your operating system is up and running and see if the computer 'recognizes" the cable. it will show a popup screen saying "new device recognized", and will automatically install the drivers needed to transfer data through the cable. if you've already used a USB cable for other devices such as a printer this might not occur as the driver for using the cable should already have already installed itself but it might anyway.  

 

6) Now fire up the PX350, let it go through it's complete startup routine, now plug in your USB or midi DIN cable into the ports in back and wait for the computer to "recognize" the PX350, this is where the Casio driver will install itself. Some users have had trouble with this step, since Windows doesn't always behave itself. I just install the driver again, re-connect everything and try again if it doesn't work the first time. I also find plugging the cable in after the PX is on works better than plugging the cable in, then turning the PX on. Again Windows doesn't always behave itself. Not sure about Apple but i don't think you need to install the Casio driver for Apple OS and computers. Remember there are t 2 drivers for Windows-one for the USB cable connection, and another one for the Casio PX350, you need both installed. (Rats!)

 

7) Providing all this worked-depending upon your midi seqiuencer-look at the top menu barin your music software for something called "options" or "preferences" under "files" or "edit" or similar. Open this and look for something labelled "midi" or "hardware" or "devices". This is where you will see descriptions for "ports" labelled in and out. You will see a small window with possibly more than one choice although for midi in, you should see only "USB" for the in port. The out port may have more options, but select "USB" as your out port.  Finally, you will be ready to record your PX350 playing performance as midi data into the sequencer program you have chosen.

 

8) This next step is a little tricky to understand-I am giving you everything I can in one session-remember computer and music geeks have been developing this for decades (me included) so there is alot to it at first until you understand it all.  it is about midi local on/off, but very important to understand with midi data when recording.

 

There is a setting in the PX350 called local on/off (page E-45 in the manual-use the "function" button to get to this option). When you start up the PX350 it always automatically sets itself to local "on". This means that when you play the keys, it connects to the "sound engine" inside the PX and plays those sounds, whatever you picked as your tone. It will also send out midi data through the PX350 USB midi port which the computer will receive in its USB port and will send that data to the software sequencer, not as sound, but as a "midi data stream". This is why you need to make sure your music software is set to "midi in" port as USB under options or preferences, whether it is Cakewalk or any other music midi software program.

 

"Local off" means that when you play the keys, it will only send midi data out to the computer, but not to the PX350 internal sound engine. You will hear nothing from the PX if you disconnect your midi connection to the computer. Hang in there, I'm almost done.

 

Since your USB cable works in a "loop"-it sends and receives data through the same cable-if you switch local control "off" on the PX, you will still hear the PX350 as you play it if it is connected to the computer and your software program is running, because it is making a complete circuit-the data goes out the PX, through the USB cable into the computer, the computer sends the data back out immediately to the PX midi in port and plays the PX through this loop. This is why your music software midi "out" port must also be set to "USB". If local control is "on" you have a problem because now you will have both the computer and you playing the PX at the same time. It will work, but can cause all kinds of problems. Why is this important? You will not be able to record midi data correctly unless you understand all this, you would end up recording 2 overlapping tracks of data which will confuse Windows no end, something I try seriously to avoid!

 

7) Finally-the PX350 always sends out midi data on midi channel one when you turn it on and select a tone.  As you already know-there is a 17-track sequencer built into the PX350. Your music software will record this midi channel and memorize that you have it set at midi channel one if you are in "tone"mode-not song sequencer mode as that gets even more complicated, I'll skip that for now! Each 'track' on the PX is set to a different midi channel if you are in song recorder mode-I don't remember what channel the "system" track records on, but i think it is also always channel one. If all you want to do is record a single track-your piano to your software, you are done. Don't switch to song recorder, just keep the PX in tone mode.

 

Your software will have icons marked "record" 'rewind" "play" like a tape recorder and these are used the same way as a tape recorder. Hit record on the sequencer, start playing and depending upon what software you are using, music notes or little blocks representing data wil appear in you software program screen. Hit stop, rewind, play and whatever you recorded will play back through the PX350, using the PX350 sound you recorded. it is not recording the piano's actual sound, only it's data stream but it is also recording the dayta identifying the selection of the tone you used. if you record with some other sound, when you play it back, you will heasr that sound from the PX even if you have selected another tone (if it works the way it's supposed to!)   One other detail. Save your recording! Look under "file" in the music software program menu, find "save", name it and it will save it as a .mid file and will be saved on your computer.

 

I'm sorry this post is so long, but I again assuming you are a complete beginner, I apologize if I've hashed over basics you already knew.

 

PS-I think I just won the dubious distinction of having the longest post here.  I hope not. Ouch. now i know how Beethoven felt when he wrote what was supposed to be his first and last symphony..

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Jokeyman, first of all, thank you for all the time and effort you put into your reply ... I really truly appreciate it! I followed the steps you listed as closely as possible and I've made some progress but have not quite gotten it to work.

When I plugged the piano into the computer it actually downloaded a driver for it atomatically. You mentioned that I needed to install another one from the website so I followed that link you posted but none of the drivers there indicated that they were for the 350, so I did not download any of them :/ I decided to just continue on with the rest of the steps you listed ...

I proceded to open up cubase and after a little tinkering here and there I managed to get it to recognize and record midi from my casio. Sidenote: I did turn local control off ... and then when I played back the track it played through the CASIO speakers but not the PC speakers. I just want to verify that this is supposed to happen?

 

Here's the issue though, when I save the file in cubase and then try to play it with window media player, the track is silent. There is no audio content. I know that you mentioned that you don't have experience with cubase, but since most DAWs will share many similarities in the way that things need to be set up I wonder if you still might be able to shed some light on the issue. Are you sure that it is not necessary to attach another cable between the 350 and the PC so that I can send it the actual audio? Because currently it looks to me like I'm sending midi ... and then the computer is sending midi back ... and then the 350 is using its internal audio engine to 'convert' the midi into the appropriate sounds. But it looks to me that that audio is never being routed to the PC. There is a place in cubase where I can select "Audio Inputs" and "Audio Outputs". Under both it says "Not connected". Is that a problem in this particular case? Or maybe things aren't working because I was not able to download that second driver?

 

Thank you again for your help!!

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 I'm glad you have gotten this far. I purposely omitted any info about audio in/out since this is the 2nd major part of this project. I was trying to keep the post short! A true DAW as you see, records and plays 2 entirely different types of data-you have achieved the first part of the concept with MIDI data-I mentioned that you might need to install a driver for the piano manually only because Windows doesn't always behave itself with drivers, as you may already know if you've had experience with the OS. That it installed the correct USB driver automatically is a plus, that is what is supposed to do. Since you are now correctly getting midi data to do what it is supposed to do. It is correctly looping your midi data back to the midi sound engine in the PX and playing that, and that only and with local off which is correct.

 

The audio connections in the PX and in your computer consist of an entirely distinct set of electronics, and require different software routines to work. Your DAW software, since it can also record and play audio at the same time as midi data, is looking for the audio connections from your computer. Windows (assuming this is your system) media player has software routines to play 1) midi data and also 2) audio in the form of .wav files, which is the software (digital) equivlent of audio sounds as from your stereo equipment. A DAW can do the same except it will do this simultaneously and allows you to create and edit both types of data in one program, Windows Media player cannot do this.

 

All current computers include ICs and software routines that will recognize and play/record digital audio streams (not midi data) through their own sound-generating chips and have used the industry standard ".wav" file for this alone. This requires sound-generating ICs which are built into Windows-this is equivalent to the soundchips in a stand-alone music keyboard which generates sounds through its specialized sound-generating chips, completely independent of midi data and software routines. So you need to connect all of these together as well to play true digital audio sounds (not midi data).

 

The industry standard for computer audio in and out connectors is a 1/8" stereo and mono line jack and plugs-such as on mini headphones, ipods etc.  (not the sturdiest form-factor but it works). What you need to connect the "audio" output from the PX-350 to the computer is a stereo cable that has 2 1/4"  male plugs-each should be monophonic, and 1 1/8" stereo mini plug on the other cable end (that is if you intend to record in stereo, which all computers can do currently-you can connect only one PX350 out and record monophonically if you want to of course. This goes into the 1/8" input on your computer, which depending on your computer, will be a separate jack for "line input" or may be a combination "microphone/line" input jack-many computers use the same input for both and are supposed to sense what is connected and adjust the input "impedance" to get a good audo signal. Now this audio, once recorded in your DAW, will not play on the PX unless you connect your computer speaker outputs to the audio inputs of the PX350 since the computer is now generating the audio soundfile. This audio will play through your computer speakers if you don't connect the outputs to anything else, so you have 2 choices there.

 

I hope I explained this clearly. Again sorry if I'm over the top with details, but I'm assuming this is all new to you, and I'm trying to be thorough. Any other questions, ask away. Signing out for now.

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Jokeyman, thank you once again for the very thorough response! I read this and acted on it a week ago but was going to wait until I resolved my issues to post again. Sadly I've not been able to do that. I purchased the cables that you indicated from Guitar Center hoping that it would be as simple as just plugging them in to the right spots :P

So here's the first thing: in Cubase there is a menu in which you can select both Audio Inputs and Audio Outputs. After plugging in the cable I would have expected there to be a new option under Audio Inputs, but there was not. The only thing that was there was General Low Latency ASIO driver, which is always there. I tried selected this anyway, thinking that maybe that was what I needed (despite strongly thinking that this was not the case) but when I tried to export a song from cubase I had the same results as before: a file with no sound. At one point I was able to record audio from the Casio by recording to an actual audio track instead of a midi track, but this is not really my goal. My goal is to record to a midi track and then have it produce the audio as it's "exporting" the track. The problem with recording directly to an audio track is that it does not allow me to then edit the midi and have the changes be "reflected" in the audio track. Furthermore, the audio track sounded AWFUL, with a very significant amount of static/distortion, so I feel like I must be doing something wrong.

Do you have any advice or can you think of anything else I could try? Would you have suspected there to be a new item under Audio Inputs after plugging in the cable?

As another interesting sidenote: when trying to fiddle around with all of this stuff I got numerous Blue Screens of Death, that complained of something like IRQ_DRIVER_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL, which lead me to believe I might have some kind of driver issue that is preventing this from working properly.

Thanks again for your help!

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Did you install the ASIO driver or did Anvil Studio or some other software do that? This is a likely culprit. I would delete this from Windows add/remove programs control panel if you can and see if that solves your audio problem but read below first.

 

When Windows is installed on a computer, it examines all the specific "branded" devices that make up that machine, video card, CPU support chips, etc. and most importantly-your installed audio card. It is supposed to automatically install a "driver" that will match the device's ID with Windows memory "slots" and the IRQ-"interrupt request" which is a signal sent to the CPU to wake up and talk to your audio card. From windows XP on, this was supposed to work automatically-in practice not always successfully.

 

Each computer manufacturer also designs "drivers" which are designed for specific devices and specific computer models-including the audio card in your computer. I needed to install drivers from Dell for my Dell computer for my audio card to work, even if to just play the stupid Windows startup sound.  Blue screens, computer crashes and bad sound quality can be from more than one driver installed trying to operate your audio card or a bad driver installed but not designed correctly, sort of like trying to park 2 cars in the same space-the drivers are now competing for control and your device won't work and the computer will lockup, freeze or some other computer obscenity will happen.  I've lost much time discovering how often this occurs.

 

Once you have the right driver, specifically in this instance for your audio card your problems hopefully will be over. Your DAW will find the right audio configuration once set up correctly with the right driver (I hope!) and all modern DAWs will sync your audio and midi files together, with a little "massaging" as part of the deal.  You will have to do some searching at your specific computer's website for a "branded" driver for the audio card, especially if using Windows XP although I have found Windows 7 still problematic when it comes to drivers, for audio and other devices. You might want to try what you are doing without installing a "branded" audio driver first-see if the native Windows audio card driver works stand-alone. Again, this driver is supposed to still be there when you delete the ASIO driver as it was supposed to be installed as part of the operating system. if it is, leave it if it works! The other possibility is to look at the available options in your software DAW for audio inputs and outputs and select the Windows input/output if you see it as another choice instead of the ASIO, before you uninstall anything. This may also work, maybe.

 

Are you getting the feeling you know why so many musicans use Apple stuff? I'm a hard-core masochist who learned "Basic" programming language from my father and segued right into "DOS" and even "Dr. DOS" after ugrading from my Atari 520ST FM so I'm hopelessly addicted to Windows and its myriad torture scenarios, I've lost hair on every version that ever came out, and I am ashamed of myself! :wacko:   :P

 

I leave you with this wiki, to help you understand-ASIO drivers as you will read have more sophisticated features, but if it doesn't work.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Stream_Input/Output

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Are you referring to the CASIO driver or the other one that would have already been there? In either case I never installed a driver explicitly. As for the CASIO one though it automatically installed when I connected the px-350 for the first time. I'm weary of uninstalling the ASIO driver because I've heard that that can be a bit messy/tricky. If you're referring to the CASIO one though I could definitely give that a shot ...

 

I actually just looked on the Dell website (I have a ~2011 XPS laptop) and noticed that there is a 2013 update for my driver. When I look at the driver on my PC I see a date in 2011 ... so my guess is that the thing has never been updated. I figure maybe I'll try updating that first and then go from there. Hopefully that will solve my issues!

 

I do just want to clarify something though to make sure we're on the same page as far as what exactly I'm trying to do ... particularly since you alluded to the DAW "syncing audio and midi files together". In particular, unless if it's absolutely necessary, I have no desire to have an actual audio track of my piano in my song. Rather what I'd like is the following situation:

 

I would like to initially only record midi. When I save/export the song to disk, I'm hoping that it sends the midi messages back to the piano which then produces the sounds and routes the audio back to the PC (through the cable I just purchased) and that that sound will then get recorded in the file.
 

The reason that I want to clarify this point is that I'm concerned that it's not possible to do that ... and rather that it's only possible to directly record both midi and audio at the same time (which I've actually been able to do ... although it sounded awful and static-y as I mentioned in an earlier post). My fear is that this would explain why I *did* hear audio -- albeit terribly sounding audio -- when I recorded directly to an audio track but I heard nothing when exporting a sole midi track to disk and then playing the WAV file that was produced. Specifically I feel that the distinction is important because I would very much like the ability to edit the midi after recording and then have it "reproduce" the appropriate audio after said changes have been made. If however it can only record the audio directly at the time of playing then this would not be possible, which is my concern. (Sidenote: I do know that I can record and edit midi and that the DAW will send that updated midi data to my piano when I hit play in the DAW, but that doesn't mean that when I save the track that the audio will be produced and actually recorded into the WAV file).

 

It is possible to do what I'm referring to correct? I just want to be 100% sure we're talking about the same thing before I go forward with any additional steps!

 

And thanks again for your help! :)

 

-Tim

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Are you using windows 7, 8 or XP? I'm pretty sure you need the Casio driver in order to connect the PX350 to use the USB or MIDI DIN connectors for purely MIDI data communications (.mid or .smf files). But Windows also needs its own driver which is for connecting with every other USB device-card readers, printers, etc. If you've connected any other USB device to your computer successfully, you know the driver is already installed and working.

 

I think what you are saying is that once you record your piano performance as midi data, you want to play the PX350 using the midi file through your midi connection from the computer. and as this is playing, you now wish to record the audio using the PX350 audio output jack into your computer's audio input jack? If this is so, it might be easier to use your DAW or any midi recording software to record and play back just the midi data, and use a separate program such as Audacity which in the Windows world is specifically designed to record and save audio only files, and save these as .wav files or any other audio format it has built-in. And the audio quality, while maybe not a pristine audiophile quality recording, should certainly sound as clear as any othe rmusic file you can play back with your computer (mp3, mp4, flac etc.)

 

I'm not sure if a DAW can do both at the same time (supposed to be able to but.....this is where the correct drivers have to be there that can process both midi data files and audio files correctly and simultaneously from your computer's configuration for all this and from the same software program which is where the headaches can begin. Theoretically it should be able to, but because of the nature of the Windows OS, it doesn't always work well which is why I described a DAW as at least capable of playing both simultaneously and in sync.

 

Once you have recorded and saved your piano playing performance as a midi file and recorded its playback as an audio file, the DAW can cut and paste either or both in any way you want. if you had say, a percussion track downloaded from somewhere as a .mid file, you could import that into your DAW on one track, then import your piano track recorded as an audio file into the same DAW, and play both together, providing it "jives" musically, the DAW is supposed to keep the 2 tracks on the same "clock". Theoretically, you could play the same piano track as both an audio and .mid file imported into your DAW and the both would play identically at least as far as timing is concerned. Or you could download a .wav file of for example real or "found" sounds like a Foley designer and paste that into your arrangement along with your midi data file.

 

The ASIO driver was (partially) designed to give you the capability you are describing. Again, in practice, I prefer to keep the 2 processes (recording midi data and recording audio data) happening in 2 distinct programs which for me is easier to configure and is also easier for me at least to keep the drivers needed for both in 2 separate programs. In my experience, this tends to confuse Windows a little less. Others here have probably successfully played and recorded both audio and midi data simultaneously in the same DAW with perhaps less trouble than me. Perhaps.

 

Remember that based upon what I think you want to do, you will end up with 2 distinct files in 2 distinct file formats, a .mid file and a .wav audio file. The confusing part in the PX350 (at least IMO) is that the PX350 is capable of...............

 

1) recording your performance internally as an audio file, and saving it as a .wav file on your thumb drive. Or

 

2) it can record your performance as pure data, but as either a "song" file which will be in Casio's proprietary format, not as a .mid file. Or.........

 

3) you can save the "song" file internally-the data file-as a .mid on the thumb drive and internally to the PX350. Casio is trying to (I think) provide all these options in order to give the user more choices as to how your performance ends up being saved, so you can use/edit it in different ways. You could certainly play back the same performance "live" with the sounds coming out the Casio audio out jacks and midi data (the same performance) coming out the USB midi or DIN midi jacks if you wanted to play your pre-recorded midi data file and send it to another keyboard with midi cables or to a "virtual" instrument installed in your computer (let's not get into that now!)

 

What you can't do if i recall correctly is play the midi data out through both the midi DIN jack and the USB midi jack at the same time, I think you can only output midi data through one or the other-I could be wrong, I'd have to check the manual on that. either way, the audio will be sent to and play through the audio out jacks simultaneously with the midi out data.

 

Another scenario (hope I'm not making you too crazy!) You could play a .mid file from your computer connected to the Casio which you will hear through the Casio, and play live from the keyboard simultaneously, and record both coming out the audio jacks. I will play a .mid file I have created or already have on my computer as an accompaniment for example, and play a full 2-hand piano or other instrument part live, just for practicing or fun. (There is fun in this somewhere!) This is easier for me since although the PX350 has a 17-track sequencer (for midi data recording) and can record very complex arrangements just with midi data performances, I find it easier to record to a computer midi recorder for whatever accompaniment parts I want,  (using the PX350 midi out) then play the song or 2-hand piano parts along with this. Even though the PX has many accompaniment parts pre-recorded, i don't use many of them and prefer creating original tracks.

 

It is very tricky editing the accompaniment parts built into the PX, easier in a computer IMO to create my own. And the 17-track sequencer has practically no editing functions at all internally. You can record 17 tracks, but after that, there is almost nothing you can do directly from the PX to edit say volume levels, effects for each track, timing correction or other adjustments ot the midi file I recorded, all of which can be done easily with a midi recording/editing program or full DAW. I mention this in case you haven't discovered that already, help you avoid a potential headache (I have it).

 

Hope this helps. signing off for now.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm using Windows 7 ... but yeah as for the midi there does not seem to be any issue transferring data so I imagine that means the problem is almost certainly with my PCs ASIO driver as opposed to the CASIO driver (that is, if it's even a driver problem at all). I still haven't yet tried upgrading the driver because I foresee it causing some headaches so I'm going to wait until this weekend when I'll actually have some time.

 

"I think what you are saying is that once you record your piano performance as midi data, you want to play the PX350 using the midi file through your midi connection from the computer. and as this is playing, you now wish to record the audio using the PX350 audio output jack into your computer's audio input jack?"

This is EXACTLY what I want to do!!! Have you ever been able to do that?

 

"If this is so, it might be easier to use your DAW or any midi recording software to record and play back just the midi data, and use a separate program such as Audacity which in the Windows world is specifically designed to record and save audio only files, and save these as .wav files or any other audio format it has built-in. And the audio quality, while maybe not a pristine audiophile quality recording, should certainly sound as clear as any othe rmusic file you can play back with your computer (mp3, mp4, flac etc.)"

 

So first of all ... would this scenario involve me recording the sound generated from the piano's own internal sound engine? If so, how can I do this with Audacity? Or would Audacity be generating its own sound from the midi? If it's the latter then that would not be an acceptable solution for me since I want to use the CASIO's internal audio. If it's the former however, despite the relative inconvenience this option might work for me. Because then I could record the midi, tweak it as necessary and use Audacity to create a wave which I could then import into my Cubase project as an audio track.

 

Thanks for the help!

P.S. I tried connected my px to my MacBook and record the audio in cubase ... and that did not work either ... same as my PC.

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  • 1 month later...

I'm having a lot of trouble accessing the sounds from my Casio PX-5S in Logic Pro X.  I open up a new Instrument track, open an External Instrument plugin, but the PX-5S doesn't show up as an option.  My PX-5S is connected to my computer via MIDI through a Mbox 2.  I thought the Mbox may have been the problem, so I tried connecting via USB MIDI, and that didn't work either.  Anybody have any ideas?

 

Thanks in advance!

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I'm having a lot of trouble accessing the sounds from my Casio PX-5S in Logic Pro X.  I open up a new Instrument track, open an External Instrument plugin, but the PX-5S doesn't show up as an option.  My PX-5S is connected to my computer via MIDI through a Mbox 2.  I thought the Mbox may have been the problem, so I tried connecting via USB MIDI, and that didn't work either.  Anybody have any ideas?

I'm a little confused by what you've written, so my apologies if I've misunderstood.

 

You can't record the sounds of your PX-5S via MIDI. MIDI only records performance data (keys played, pitch bends, and so forth). In order to record the sound of your PX-5S, you'll need to connect it via the Audio Outs on the PX-5S to the Inputs on the Mbox. The track in Logic will need to be an audio track with the inputs of the Mbox set up as its input. The Mac/Logic will still not show it as the PX-5S. It's just some audio source to it.

 

If you do want to record MIDI data, the track in Logic has to be the right type. I haven't played with Logic Pro X in that regard (I have Logic 8) so I'm not sure what the track type should be.Software Instrument is one type, but that's usually to play Logic's instruments or a AU plug-in instrument. If you want Logic to be able to control the PX-5S like a sequencer on playback, the track type might be different.

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Maybe all u guys can help me.

The midi user manual for the px350 says on page 13 para 8.7 that Expression can be transmitted when Accomp midi out is in the ON postion.

 

This I understand, but which controller on the px350 do u use to manage it? the px350 has no expression pedal input jack?

 

I would really love to use a pedal to control expression volume when I am connected to my vst midi software.

 

Currently I can only control volume cc7 using the layer balance + - switch, ( page 12 para 8.5 ) but that is not the same as an expression pedal would be.

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  • 5 weeks later...

It's called GarageBand. ;)

 

Actually, that's largely what Apple did. They stripped all the MIDI Out from Logic and ended up with that. GarageBand takes what's difficult out of Logic and gives you a pretty simple multitrack recorder that also records MIDI to play the built-in software instruments. Here, MIDI is only used as a controller to play the internal sounds.

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Julian, cc11 is commonly used for expression. I haven't tried using that cc but I would think you need to use an external midi controller pedal with settings for cc to use this. If you are using software, cc11 should work although I still don't quite understand what "expression" does. i think it establishes a dynamic range for volume based upon whatever the basic volume already is, but i'm not sure. Using expression with my Ensoniq MR76 seems to make the minimum dynamic level louder but the volume range (dynamic range) seems the same.

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