Korakios Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Hi,I need an official clarification. I had an idea (simple one and will post it in separate thread) ,but i need to connect with one midi cable the out midi port to input . While reading a manual of a drum machine today ,it stated "Do Not connect the Midi out straight to Midi In ,It will cause malfunction).So, is it possible?Also another basic question is if XW passes thru midi data by default . I can't recall if I messed with the settings and changed the "MIDIOutSel" parameter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Null Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 You want to connect the MIDI OUT port to the MIDI IN port on THE SAME DEVICE? No way. At the very least a horrible feedback loop and at worst case scenario you blow out one or both of the ports. And the default settings on the XW are MIDIoutSel turned off. No MIDI. Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korakios Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 Hello Gary ,Why feedback loop occurs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Null Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 If it's receiving on the same channel as its sending every keypress will feed back through MIDI with a millisecond or two delay and then be sent out again into loop over and over. God only knows how that would affect other messages like bank and patch changes Also the MIDI spec supplies a small voltage and current thru an optoisolator to MIDI OUT but how that would interact with the MIDI IN on the same machine would be anyone's guess. Depends on the circuit design but you could end up with some weird circuit loading and blowing out your MIDI ports entirely. Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korakios Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 Thank you for taking time to answer the questions,I really appreciate that.When you first mentioned the feedback loop ,I thought you meant voltage. The XW will not pass thru ,unless it's set to do it. So ,no problem.I am mostly concerned on the hardware design. Casio people would know better...if no official answer drops here I the forum,I'll try emailing to tech support.Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokeyman123 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Gary is absolutely right. And this holds true for all midi instruments, not just Casio. Might lock up the keyboard too. Similar to the concept of audio feedback from a microphone to a speaker except the midi data will echo back on itself, replicating its own data until the keyboard is overloaded with midi data and this can make the keyboard "freeze" or just stop working. Some keyboards I've owned have a midi reset or "panic" button/function in case this happens as it can also occur when moving data between a computer and a music keyboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korakios Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Nope, there is no midi echo . I used a usb to midi interface , send some midi notes to input and used MidiOX app to monitor the output. NO FEEDBACK.Also played some notes on the keyboard. Only triggered once. So no feedback loops... Like Jockeyman123 said overloading with midi data can lock up the instruments. But also a computer ,regardless the cpu engine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokeyman123 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Yes, USB uses a different interface and circuitry than DIN connectors. The reason you are getting no loops if i read this right-you are using USB and the XW does not pass through midi data to the DIN out port. It is not a "thru" port when using the USB connection. I'm pretty sure there is no "thru" function available when using USB midi with the XW-anybody here correct me if I'm wrong. and the XW has a switchable pass-through DIN port and I don't think that will send out data to USB, only to the DIN out and only when midi data is being received at the DIN port, not the USB in. My understanding is my XW will not work using both midi din and USB midi at the same time, it's an either/or situation. You have to switch which midi port you want to use for each channel-it will only send to usb midi or DIN midi, not both since the circuits and software are different for each. That's why no loops. But again if you plug the DIN midi in to the out, not a good idea. Anybody else here, correct me if I'm not quite seeing this right. A little complicated but that's because the XW is designed to allow for sending both USB and DIN midi data out simultaneously, but on different "tracks" or channels. I can send tracks for the sequencer out through USB and at the same time send solo or hex layer tracks out throught the DIN ports, nice for firing 2 different modules or a DAW and a drum machine or sound module, etc. at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korakios Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 Yes, USB uses a different interface and circuitry than DIN connectors. The reason you are getting no loops if i read this right-you are using USB and the XW does not pass through midi data to the DIN out port.No, I used a usb midi interface and monitor the data on XW physical midi in outs. correct me if I'm wrong. and the XW has a switchable pass-through DIN port and I don't think that will send out data to USB, only to the DIN out and only when midi data is being received at the DIN port, not the USB in. You can set usb out to transmit what's coming from physical Midi In port. My understanding is my XW will not work using both midi din and USB midi at the same time, it's an either/or situation. You have to switch which midi port you want to use for each channel-it will only send to usb midi or DIN midi, not both since the circuits and software are different for each. That's why no loops. But again if you plug the DIN midi in to the out, not a good idea. Anybody else here, correct me if I'm not quite seeing this right.Nope , XW can transmit whatever you want at the same time (it's very flexible , read page 82 for midi settings in the pdf manual) My understanding is my XW will not work using both midi din and USB midi at the same time, it's an either/or situation. You have to switch which midi port you want to use for each channel-it will only send to usb midi or DIN midi, not both since the circuits and software are different for each. On page 77 it states you can select Midi or Usb for output , but it doesn't mean you can't select both BTW, I send an email to casio support about the chipset capability. I think I am over-concerned ,it should not be a problem for the electronic part , but since I don't know the design part , I don't want to damage my first new synth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Null Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Using a USB MIDI interface is NOT the same as plugging a standard MIDI cable straight thru from IN to OUT which is what you originally gave the impression of wanting to do. The way I read your first post was that you wanted to do a straight cable hookup between the two ports. Hooking up a standard USB MIDI interface to IN and OUT is a normal configuration for the hardware. Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korakios Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 Using a USB MIDI interface is NOT the same as plugging a standard MIDI cable straight thru from IN to OUT which is what you originally gave the impression of wanting to do. My question still regards to plugging a standard MIDI cable straight from IN to OUT. I don't understand why I confused you and where exactly.Maybe my poor English don't help me, sorry.As I mentioned earlier ,by using a usb midi interface (NOT xw usb port) and connected to physical midi ports I just doubled checked that xw g1 does not enable "midi thru" ,unless you change the settings in xw menu.Meaning that I will not cause midi feedback. The only reason I used the usb midi interface (NOT xw usb port) was for monitoring the traffic.I still fear that maybe I don't have knowledge on electronics ,and do something wrong... In the meantime I though you would understand why I want to do this. I will also use channels 5,6,7 but without the need of PC. Just a midi cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Null Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Jokeyman and I BOTH explained to you it's NOT a good idea. It violates the MIDI spec and it definitely won't work and won't accomplish anything that you can't do internally. I'm NOT going to repeat myself any more. If you are simply waiting to hear the answer that you WANT to hear you won't hear it from us. I'm unfollowing this thread. Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korakios Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 Hi Garry and farewell. You got frustrated with no reason.You were wrong on the feedback loop thing and I was trying to explain that there is no such thing (unless changing the xw settings) Also Also the MIDI spec supplies a small voltage and current thru an optoisolator to MIDI OUT but how that would interact with the MIDI IN on the same machine would be anyone's guess. Depends on the circuit design but you could end up with some weird circuit loading and blowing out your MIDI ports entirely. If you are simply waiting to hear the answer that you WANT to hear you won't hear it from us. I haven't (yet) heard anything useful from you Gary in this thread. You stated something wrong at the begging and later on ,one guess that things could be wrong. So I honestly don't want to continue talking about the specific subject. BUT I'd like to know ,and if anyone could help Jokeyman and I BOTH explained to you it's NOT a good idea. It violates the MIDI spec and it definitely won't work and won't accomplish anything that you can't do internally. how can I drive ,let's give an example :zone 2 (midi channel 2 ) to part 6 (midi channel 6) internally... I know sequencer can drive to different channel ,but I can't do it on the first 4 zones. Well ,I can change the out channel but I don't hear any sound from channel 6.... Hope it's clear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokeyman123 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I'll try again to help. From this last post I think what you are describing is that your zone 2 is part of a "performance"? and you are trying to send this zone 2 midi output to part 6-or track 6 of the sequencer? If that is what you want to do, each "zone" of a performance can be set to output on a separate midi channel, but it will not as far as I can tell, be able to send that midi data back into the XW's sequencer. Anything you play on the keys in zone 2 can be sent out through either DIN or USB midi ports, but only to external midi devices, not back into the XW, since each sequencer "track' or "channel" will be set to its own midi channel and I don't think this can be changed he way you want. Track 1 in the sequencer is assigned to midi channel 1, track 2 etc.and even if you change the channel assigements to match from the performance zone to the sequencer track, internally without using a midi cable as an external loop, I don't think that will work. When you play the XW, it must be in either performance mode, or sequencer mode or tone/hex layer/drawbar organ mode (playing live from the keyboard). And since you can create a sequence, and make it a part of a user performance setting, what you want to do if I understand correctly, is not necessary. Your sequence will play whatever sounds you assign to it and whatever you have already recorded into it and in performance mode. Then you can set up zones in the performance to play live from the keyboard while this is happening, and send your live keyboard playing out the midi ports to external equipment, and with up to 4 different midi channel assignments, but not back into the sequencer while its playing from your performance. Signing out, I gave it my best! And Mike Martin-does this make any sense? I think I got it right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korakios Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Thanks Jockeyman123 When I said zone2 ,yes I meant performance mode part 2 (or channel 2).By using external gear I can route a zone on performance zone to drive back channels 5,6,7 and make a super fat sound, realtime.With the right settings I play one note and boom, XW gives me 7 unique sounds... That is the main reason I want to drive midi back to xw by using only a cable.I wish I could mention this from the beginning to avoid misunderstandings, I wanted to post it as a tip&trick in a different thread.At least I learned that no midi feedback occurs, and cannot do the trick internally and realtime.A mod can delete this thread if it's confusing and misleading.I will seek info for the electronic part on dedicated hardware forums and if there is no problem for the XW midi chipset ,I'll make a guide.Thanks for your patience! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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