PX-350: User reviews, DP questions & hands-on experiences...

[cpcohen]

The reverb settings are controlled by the [fcn]+[bank] key -- not through the main "Function" menu.

 

There are (I think) 5 settings -- Off, Room, Small Hall, Large Hall, Stadium -- or something like that.  There's only _one_  -- "depth" and "time constant" are not independently adjustable..

 

. . . It's _not_ a full-blown synth.

 

I suspect the PX-5S is a lot more flexible.

 

Next to the "Bank" key is an unlabelled key.   That key (pressed along with the [Fcn] key) lets you control the amount of Chorus effect.  I think there are 5 settings for that one, too.

 

.           Charles

 

PS -- all this is in the manual, which is not easy reading.

[cpcohen]

And, when using it as a piano, I find I _like_ a little reverb.   "Stadium" is a bit much, but the others are usable.

 

.         Charles

[Brad Saucier]

I suspect the PX-5S is a lot more flexible

 

Your suspicion is very correct.  Way more flexible. 

[Jokeyman123]

Regarding the PX-350, I am intrigued with possibility of deeper control through CC messages which I am studying-could parts of the PX be controlled with software (or even hardware) controllers with midi control messages-this could overcome some of the limitations for DSP fine tuning and would really open the PX up. I haven't tried anything yet but anyone reading my posts about the XW-P1 knows I like to "push the envelope" of what an instrument can do.

 

On another line of thought-if anyone can give me a few tips on using the 17-track sequencer with the PX-350, there is so little detail in the manual one could blink and not realize there is one. Will be working on it tonight, but I suspect there is much more capability here than I can make out so far. I know the PX5S is more truly a workstation, but with a little more "editability" (I made that up) I think the 350 ain't too bad.

 

Lastly-I forgot who posted it, but notice I used the return key here for a change. My eyes are so bad, it doesn't seem to matter to me much, but I try to be nice to people in this forum when I can (not too often I don't want to spoil anyone). You get more with a cookie than a tire iron, depending on your neighborhood I guess.

[Brad Saucier]

Actually Jokeyman, the 350 is more of a workstation than the PX5s.   The 5s is designed for live performance and as a synth. It does outshine the 350 in the synth editing, effect editing and controllers but it doesn't have a the kind of songwriting sequencer or patterns like the 350. 

 

Also, look up the midi implementation PDF for the PX350 to see what may be possible over midi.  I'm not good with that book, so I can't help with what inside of it. 

[cpcohen]

Check YouTube for videos on the PX-350 by "PianoManChuck".  One of them is a tutorial on the multi-track MIDI recorder.

 

I don't know about controlling the "effects" settings, but you _can_ use MIDI messages to get different levels of "half-pedal".  You'll have to delve into the "MIDI Implementation" manual yourself, I think, for the "effects" stuff.

 

I just got a microKorg XL+ to play with.  Now, _that_ beast has all the sonic toys one could want.  But the "piano" sounds (IMHO) are really awful.

 

.       Charles

[Jokeyman123]

Thanks-I've studied Pianoman's videos. Hmmm-no sequencer on PX5s, didn't know that. There is not much in the MIDI implementation chart-but the CC messages are significant, something to torture myself with. Didn't need another full workstation anyway, needed a decent lightweight piano with a reasonable piano feel to get my chops back, my old RG200 feels like mush at this point and the TS12 is the same-that old clunky Fatar action just ain't right. 

 

The only letdown for me-the speakers do sound like there is something seriously muffling the sound, even with brightness up and a few of the pianos are too filtered for my taste-same as the other pianos with the highs rolled off. Speakers might sound better from a distance but decent headphones-I use AKG K240M and K66 and an old set of Phillips over the ear which are all pretty transparent. The AKGs really let me hear what this sounds like.

 

I don't hear all the artifacts or other sample discrepancies others are complaining about in other forums at least not so far, but then even a Steinway produces unpredictable results at times, depending upon your skills or lack of.  I really enjoy the upper string resonance simulation-amazing this can all be done in chips. Beats spending $50,000 to $500,000 on a Bosendoerfer, Steinway or whatever your poison, at least with my hamburger income.

[cpcohen]

It's interesting that the AKG K240 heaphones still make people happy.  I don't know when they were introduced, but it was a _long_ time ago.

 

<<<

. . .  Didn't need another full workstation anyway, needed a decent lightweight piano with a reasonable piano feel to get my chops back, . . .

<<<

 

I think you've got what you came for!  Have fun --

 

.      Charles 

[Bigmark]

On the reverb subject, I use the reverb on my amp when playing live.

I also tend to play a lot with headphones on at home so as not to disturb my wife, again these are connected to my amp, so again I get the amps reverb coming through.

[Jokeyman123]

Thanks CP. Might mod the keybed since the key bottoming out seems a little hard-checking inside shows only a small cushioned strip of rubber or something similar on the bottom. I modded the XW-P1 for the same reason and it made a difference. I'm used to the softer response of the acoustic piano keys when bottoming out-all digitals seem to suffer from this same jarring sensation but the PX350 is better than most. Reverb does come through fine with amplification and it seems to strike a good balance between not enough and too much at least IMO. And it's easy to switch off. 

 

Control change messages-the MIDI implementation chart shows there are 6 possible CC numbers for DSP-this is very interesting because this might be a way to fine tune the reverb and chorus settings with either a hardware or software solution. I don't know enough yet about what these CC messages do with the PX350, but I will experiment with my Alesis Q25 which can map and vary CC with analog knobs. Would be a nice way to vary the DSPs and I think even the XWP1/G1 can do this through MIDI if connected to the PX350. Anyone out there try this yet? Sorry if I'm off topic.

[cpcohen]

. . . I don't know enough yet about what these CC messages do with the PX350, but I will experiment with my Alesis Q25 which can map and vary CC with analog knobs. Would be a nice way to vary the DSPs and I think even the XWP1/G1 can do this through MIDI if connected to the PX350. Anyone out there try this yet? Sorry if I'm off topic.

 

Not off-topic at all!   Please report back if you find something interesting.  I'm going to try using a "MIDI Solutions" pedal controller on the PX-350 as a foot-operated volume control, for "fading out" with both hands on the keyboard.

 

We should have a law:

 

. . . If you build a digital keyboard, you _must_ include pitch wheel, mod wheel, sustain pedal input, and expression pedal input.

 

Life would be simpler that way!

 

.         Charles

[winx]

my roland rs-5 has nicer reverb and chorus effects than this one because its a synth. you can control the entire sound depending on your preference but it lacks the authentic sound of an acoustic piano. this dp has that sound. but i still want a little reverb effect. 

[cpcohen]

I just bought a Korg microKorg XL+ -- a full-blown (but tiny) synth.

 

One of the options is to use its "Effects" module to process audio that arrives via the 'Line In' jack.

 

. . . Would that work with the RS-5 and your Casio DP?

 

.                 Charles

[Jokeyman123]

AKGs are still being made-not the only solution of course but I just got the Sweetwater catalog which lists all of them. Practically indestructible, I think they are using some type of carbon fiber in the headband-I've dropped them 100 times, yanked the cord by accident and nothing ever broke. Very "transparent" sound which isn't to everyone's liking-doesn't boost or cut any frequencies so if your instrument sounds flat, its the instrument! And way more comfortable than others I've used. Downside is that outside noise is not blocked that much but they make "closed-back" and "open-back" designs. The 240s are open-back vented (so yer ears can breathe!)

[AndAllForOne]

 Control change messages-the MIDI implementation chart shows there are 6 possible CC numbers for DSP-this is very interesting because this might be a way to fine tune the reverb and chorus settings with either a hardware or software solution. I don't know enough yet about what these CC messages do with the PX350, but I will experiment with my Alesis Q25 which can map and vary CC with analog knobs. Would be a nice way to vary the DSPs and I think even the XWP1/G1 can do this through MIDI if connected to the PX350. ...

 

Hi Jokeyman123

 

I'm new to this forum and deciding between a 350 and a 5S, and came here with some questions to try to distinguish between them.

 

One critical difference is the 5S has those real-time sliders. If there's a way to do this on the 350 by external controllers it might tip the balance for me.

 

So I'm very interested in your experiment and hope you'll post here with the result.

 

Thanks

 

AF1

[Display Name]

Not off-topic at all!   Please report back if you find something interesting.  I'm going to try using a "MIDI Solutions" pedal controller on the PX-350 as a foot-operated volume control, for "fading out" with both hands on the keyboard.

 

 

Couple of other options...

Boss Volume Pedal:

Easy to use.. just run the output from the keyboard to the input of the pedal and then the output of the pedal to mixer/PA/amp, etc.:

http://www.bossus.com/gear/productdetails.php?ProductId=697

Behringer MIDI Pedal board:

More complex.. operates via MIDI.. dual pedals.. can do volume and just about any other MIDI CC.. 10 switches..up/down program buttons:

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/FCB1010.aspx

[Display Name]

 

 

One critical difference is the 5S has those real-time sliders. If there's a way to do this on the 350 by external controllers it might tip the balance for me.

 

 

There are controllers that will send MIDI CC.. the Behringer B-Control is one.. you need to program it to do what you want.. but by the time you add in the extra cost and and time programming.. well... 

If you want a lot of control and really like to customize your sounds, the PX-5S is the way to go. It is a sound designer's dream.. really a sandbox for sonic creation. Just my 2 cents.

 

[cpcohen]

. . . 

Behringer MIDI Pedal board:

More complex.. operates via MIDI.. dual pedals.. can do volume and just about any other MIDI CC.. 10 switches..up/down program buttons:

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/FCB1010.aspx

That's a neat box!  The MIDI Solutions peda controller is over $100 (and it arrived yesterday . . . ).   And there's no supporting software, I'll have to figure out the SysEx messages myself.  What fun!<g>

 

.       Charles

[Jokeyman123]

Boy I'm a bit dense-after wondering why PX350 speakers sound a little muddy (and I've read other's comments to that effect) of course it sounds like that. These fire out the rear, not out the top like I thought! Seeing the speaker style material on top I didn't even notice this at first. A couple of pieces of hard sound reflective material on the back does wonders for self-monitoring through the built-ins, or even setting up against a hard wall. Guess many here figured that one out a long time ago! Just a quiet little PS-I enjoy this forum so much (and contribute as much as I can) because there happily has been a lack of "bashing" or trolling here, just alot of inquisitive and knowledgeable people. Can never be enough of that, in the 'cloud" and elsewhere IMO.

[David Loving]

Anyone who has a PX330 and got a PX350, is there enough difference/improvement to justify moving up?

[cpcohen]

FWIW --

 

Try this video:

 

 

and this one:

 

 

I don't think PianoManChuck has any reason to be be biased, one way or the other.

 

.          Charles

 

PS -- If I had a PX-330, I think I'd be tempted to "upgrade" with a software piano - either PianoTeq or one of the "sampled pianos".   I have a PX-350, and like it.

 

.       Charles

[Display Name]

Boy I'm a bit dense-after wondering why PX350 speakers sound a little muddy (and I've read other's comments to that effect) of course it sounds like that. These fire out the rear, not out the top like I thought! Seeing the speaker style material on top I didn't even notice this at first........ Guess many here figured that one out a long time ago! 

 

Nope I never noticed either... I don't have one, but I have spent some time playing the various PX-models. It makes sense now that I think about it..most people probably put them against a wall so you get the natural "sound board" effect.. and for performing it helps projects the sound outwards. 

[Jokeyman123]

Destroying another warranty I disassembled the PX-350-to put more piano felt under the keys, a daunting project although I didn't put enough, it still hits hard on key bottom with my meatball hands but it helped a little.

 

Confirmed speaker placement-there is one rather small rear-firing/rear mounted oval-shaped speaker on either end, and another very small speaker mounted upward on each side of the music stand slot! There are no other speakers facing upward despite the rather large cloth area on top. Weird, but thinking this a tweeter for high frequencies, not sure as I don't seem to hear much HF coming from these but as these are about an inch in diameter i can't imagine these are full-range speakers.

 

There is some internal baffling but speakers are open inside. This may be why some people have had strange vibrations or other wierd anomalies (I needed a place to stick that word one of my favorites appropriate in so many situations) when playing not just the PX-350 but possibly other PX's with built-in speakers. I can't imagine all those vibrations flying around inside being too good for the internal circuitry after awhile, but there is almost no room for anything in there and sticking even a little bit of acoustic material might make the speakers sound worse, so I left it. I  had no extra parts laying around, so I consider it a success. (UH-OH where's my Capt. Crunch spoon)

 

The keyboard assembly seems very solid but I had to be very careful as there are many delicate parts that make up the weighted action and almost the entire keyboard has to be disassembled to add felt under the keys.

 

One last warning-I don't recommend you take this apart as it will void your warranty, and it is complicated. I've sacrificed my warranty for the greater good, I'm sure Casio will put me in the "bad boy" category in a special file in Casioland if I'm not there already. Unless you've had alot of (successful) technical projects under your belt, I would not recommend you try this. There are many screws into plastic, it is easy to break a large variety of things large and small that will make you a very unhappy person. I do these things because either 1) I am bored and have too much time on my hands, 2) fear of global warming, and 3) I'm probably a little insane from too many gigs in one lifetime inhaling first, second and third-hand smoke and old booze stink.  You have been warned.

[Ron]

In the PX-350 Manual Appendix page A-1 the last two columns are headed "Program Change" and "Bank Select MSB."

Does anyone know what the numbers in these columns mean?  Thanks.

[Jokeyman123]

I'm describing like this assuming you are a midi beginner, sorry if I'm wrong.

 

There is a specification called "MIDI" which stands for Musical Instrument Digital Interface. The committee that created this list of specifications many years ago decided to use specific numbers to perform specific tasks which could be sent over "MIDI" specified cables to interface different midi instruments together. There was so much new musical equipment being created musicians felt there was a need for a universal way to connect all this stuff together. For example-if I wanted to use a computer program or another keyboard to respond to a specific task, I would use a specific code number sent by a computer program or a midi instrument to perform that  All midi instruments and computer music software could use the same midi specifc code language.

 

The MIDI program change number-one of those codes-matches a specific sound or "tone" as Casio describes it-again for example the acoustic piano tone is usually program change "1" and additional pianos are 2,3,4 etc. when you switch a sound on your midi keyboard, the program change number automatically changes to reflect that. All newer midi keyboards and related gear are supposed to be manufactured using that standard specification.

 

In addition to program change, the bank select code enables the same collection of midi gear to switch from one entire set of sounds to a completely different set but in a special way. The first spec for sound program codes was called GM for general midi at first allowed for only up to 128 different sounds and there are only that many codes for those sounds.

 

As keyboards and computer programs grew, now there could be a thousand sounds available but only 128 codes, so the bank select code was created-if you needed to select a sound beyond the 128 GM sounds, you needed to send a "bank select" number first and then the program change number-both need to be sent to get to any sound beyond the first 128. Each bank consists of 128 additional sounds, and the number of banks depends upon the instrument manufacturer.

 

Unfortunately there is no standard beyond 128 although different manufacturers tried to create one without much success-so sound number 400 in a Casio could be a trumpet and in a Roland or Yamaha wil be something else. Again, when you select a sound in the PX-350 it is automatically sending the bank select (MSB is most significant bit-a term used for the programming language in midi code) and the program change together out the midi out port and any midi instrument will recognize and respond to that code.

 

MIDI software programs can control any part of the PX-350 that has midi code that will match the code sent by the midi software. You can control switching sounds and other settings with a computer and software with a USB midi cable connected to the PX-350, or with another midi keyboard connected to it. Sorry for the terribly long-winded reply, but as a newbie I (hopefully correctly) assumed you might not know any of this info. If I overstated my response, terribly sorry. If none of this makes any sense, I recommend doing some research on MIDI on the web. There is an incredible amount of info about all this since some musicians also tend to be somewhat literate regarding computers, code and other such nonsense. and sometimes i even get to play some music!