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Almost decided upon the PX5S but.....


Halion76

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......there are 2 things that are bugging me a little that is stopping me from hitting the "buy now" button!!

 

Transpose - I like to quickly get access to this feature and, hopefully I'm wrong, but is it quite a long process (as in multiple button presses) to get to it quickly?  The likes of the MOXF88 has dedicated buttons for transpose on the board but I'm a little worried that it might be a frustration on the PX5S.

 

Expression - when I read that the 2nd pedal port didn't support an expression pedal I was dumbfounded!!  Why?!?!?!?  I have read that I could use Audiofront USB Midi expression interface to circumvent this problem.  Is there any chance that an update could ever allow port 2 to connect standard expression pedals.  I primarily want the PX5S as a controller keyboard and with Sax VSTs the lack of expression using my normal pedal is annoying.

 

Apart from my two concerns it seems a wonderful stage piano and for the money great value.  I'd appreciate if anyone could allay my concerns re: the above.

 

Many thanks.

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I am afraid the answer is no, for sure for the 2nd point (Expression) as it would require a HW modification; for Transpose, being a software feature there is still space for an implementation at Firmware level, but at the moment the transpose function is "deep in the menus" (as you said).

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I don't think the Transpose function is "deep in the menus," though I would agree that it's not as quick as some keyboards that have a dedicated Transpose button.

 

If you know ahead of time that certain songs will require transpose, you can program pre-transposed Stage Settings. You can also set up a Stage Setting to be transposable on the fly using a slider or knob. From the FAQ

 

 

Is there a 'transpose' function for this keyboard?

Press the Sys Settings button, select MIDI. (Mike Martin) 

 

Where is the transpose button?

What I do is transpose WITHIN the stage setting and save my setups that way.. so when I pull up the sound it's in the right key... You can also make "generic" Stage Settings for your go-to piano sound and save them in a bank.. call them Grand Piano +1, Grand Piano -1, etc. (Scott Hamlin)

If you do a lot of transposing on the fly, you can assign a slider or knob to do it, too. Of course, it has to be in each stage setting you use, since it's not the global transpose.
Choose the following parameters:
Target - RPN

MSB - 0
LSB - 2
Send - MSB
Min & Max: This is your range of transposable keys. If you go 57 & 71, it will give you -7 and +7 semitones, respectively 

 

I think there are numerous threads here about using MIDI Solutions Pedal Controller to control expression. http://www.midisolutions.com/prodped.htm Sorry, no other pedal solution is going to come from Casio in the form of a firmware update or anything. Expression requires a TRS jack, and the two pedal inputs are TS. Some people have talked about wiring a pedal to one of the sliders, but no one seems to have actually done that. The sliders or knobs work great for controlling what you might want an expression pedal to do, but I understand if you feel a pedal is necessary because your hands are occupied.

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While there is no dedicated transpose button, Casio has made it very quick and simple to transpose. It is definitely not in a "deep" menu. It's two button pushed to get to the menu: SYSTEM SETTINGS, then ENTER and then you just press +/- as needed raise or lower the key. That's it. You can also use an app like MIDI Designer an place giant  transpose buttons +/-  on your iPhone or iPad if you absolutely need dedicated buttons. 

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While there is no dedicated transpose button, Casio has made it very quick and simple to transpose. It is definitely not in a "deep" menu. It's two button pushed to get to the menu: SYSTEM SETTINGS, then ENTER and then you just press +/- as needed raise or lower the key. That's it. You can also use an app like MIDI Designer an place giant  transpose buttons +/-  on your iPhone or iPad if you absolutely need dedicated buttons. 

 

Some great info from all the responses above - many thanks.

 

So two buttons and you're in to the +/- ..........hmmmm, that's not really a problem.  Sorry to labour this point but are the two button presses immediate?  Sometimes my experience on other boards are that they can be a bit laggy but is it instant on the PX5S?

 

Also, if I did assign transpose to one of the sliders - I'm not sure if I'm reading it right but I can't just change sounds as normal and always have the transpose assigned to a particular slider - but if I have say piano and brass I would need to go in and set both of them up individually prior.  If I change sound then the slider transpose reverts back to normal unless pre-programmed for that sound also?

 

Sorry for going on, just want to get it clear.

 

It seems the transpose function isn't as much of an issue as I previously thought - but it is a shame that Casio didn't have transpose +/- dedicated on the board and of course allow a proper expression pedal to be used.  As I said, this stage piano/controller gets great reviews but things like that do bug the life out of me because they "seem" to be relatively minor and surely should have been included.

 

One other thing I will say is that this forum seems very active.  A definite plus if I decide to go ahead with purchasing.  Always good to see.  I actually said to a friend last night..........."I never thought I would say this................but I'm close to buying a Casio!!".........his response was :o but I assured him that "Casio seem to be doing a Skoda" B)   I'm sure there have been plenty of decent boards out over the past few years but sometimes that stigma (which is probably unfounded from the get go) is hard to shake off.  But with a quality stage piano/controller like the PX5S sitting at such an enticing price point hopefully the brand gets the credit it deserves.

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So two buttons and you're in to the +/- ..........hmmmm, that's not really a problem.  Sorry to labour this point but are the two button presses immediate?  Sometimes my experience on other boards are that they can be a bit laggy but is it instant on the PX5S?

 

Instant!!  Transpose can be done in 1 second.  That's the beauty of Casio engineering.  They don't bog down the processor with totally unnecessary graphics of grand piano's with lid's that open and close. 

 

 

Also, if I did assign transpose to one of the sliders - I'm not sure if I'm reading it right but I can't just change sounds as normal and always have the transpose assigned to a particular slider - but if I have say piano and brass I would need to go in and set both of them up individually prior.  If I change sound then the slider transpose reverts back to normal unless pre-programmed for that sound also?

 

You won't need to worry over this.  Transpose is fast and easy as stated above.  Also, using a slider this way is difficult to control and then see how you are transposed.  I don't recommend this method.  

To answer the question .....with the above slider method, changing a stage setting will reset transpose....changing a tone within the stage setting will not.  

 

 

but sometimes that stigma (which is probably unfounded from the get go) is hard to shake off.  

 

Exactly!! Unfounded.  As more people start trying Casio's high end gear, those old mindsets will change.  Can't judge the 999$ PX-5s based on the 45$ SA-46 Casio at Walmart.   :P

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FWIW, I use the above mentioned method for transposing in live gig situations all the time...too lazy to re-transcribe charts (dots - not just chord symbols) so it is really handy. I too was used to having a transpose on the panel of the 'board, however the Casio system is pretty quick and easy, and now, almost second nature. The ONLY minor criticism is one must remember to reset it afterwards  :rolleyes:

 

Perhaps one thing for a software update is to clear the transpose automatically upon selecting a new Stage Setting?

 

Anyhoo, good luck....

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One other thing I will say is that this forum seems very active.  A definite plus if I decide to go ahead with purchasing.  Always good to see.  I actually said to a friend last night..........."I never thought I would say this................but I'm close to buying a Casio!!".........his response was :o but I assured him that "Casio seem to be doing a Skoda" B)   I'm sure there have been plenty of decent boards out over the past few years but sometimes that stigma (which is probably unfounded from the get go) is hard to shake off.  But with a quality stage piano/controller like the PX5S sitting at such an enticing price point hopefully the brand gets the credit it deserves.

If you think this board is active, you REALLY need to check out the PX-5S Facebook Group. You will get answers to question in minutes (maybe even seconds) just because of the way Facebook notifications work. Aas soon as you post members that are online get an immediate notice - and with 1,649 there are a lot of us online at any given time day or night. Join up at https://www.facebook.com/groups/Casio.Px5s/ - it's a very well maintained group so there is no spam and everyone is 

In regards to the so-called "stigma", which I am guessing means Casio = toy. Just to fill in some background for you, which you should share with anyone should they  question your judgement for buying a Casio:  Casio is an extremely diverse company - they make products for extreme beginners, intermediate players, advanced players and pros. There is something for everyone at every price point - but it is all quality. Look at all the $99 SK-1 samplers from the 80s that are still in perfect working order.  :)    It's like Toyota: they make the tiny Corolla  and the huge Land Cruiser. And just like Toyotas, Casios last forever. I still have calculators and G-Shock watches from high school that work as good as the day I bought them  (and I'm in my 40s!)  

Casio = Quality and value They know how to build electronics. Simple as that! 

 

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Perhaps one thing for a software update is to clear the transpose automatically upon selecting a new Stage Setting?

 

The RPN Master Course tune function that Joe quoted does reset with a new stage setting.  Perhaps you should try that method.  You will have to keep in mind that, on the display, a value of 64 equates to 0 and each step above and below is transposing + or -.  Resetting to 0 is easiest by recalling the stage setting again. 

 

I still prefer the midi transpose function myself. 

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Thanks again - looks like the transpose "issue" is pretty much a non issue.  Not perfect (ie no dedicated keys) but pretty immediate and not a problem.  OK so that's one thing sorted.........

 

Now - re: the expression.  I've seen people mention the Behringer FCB1010.  Without coming across as a complete idiot, how would I go about utilising this in to my PX5S setup? 

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The RPN Master Course tune function that Joe quoted does reset with a new stage setting.  Perhaps you should try that method.  You will have to keep in mind that, on the display, a value of 64 equates to 0 and each step above and below is transposing + or -.  Resetting to 0 is easiest by recalling the stage setting again. 

 

I still prefer the midi transpose function myself. 

 

 

I think you misunderstood - I DO use the transpose function all the time. I am just saying as a suggestion for an OS upgrade (if there is another one) to maybe have a setting in there that does it as an auto function upon changing Stage Settings. It was not a criticism!

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I think you misunderstood.

 

I understood.  I suggested method B may be worth trying since it acts in the fashion you were requesting.  These two transposes are different. 

 

A - system setting>enter>yes and no buttons to adjust  (will not reset upon stage setting change)

 

B - transpose set up on a slider using a RPN as a target  (will reset upon stage setting change) 

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Is it straightforward enough to go from recording the sounds of the PX5S to using it as a controller? (will be using old fashioned midi).  I'll use the lovely piano in the PX5S (and possibly a few other sounds) as audio tracks but will supplement it obviously with some of my faithful VSTs.

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instead of pressing the +/- buttons, once you have selected the menu option for high or low key for the split, there is a shortcut. Press the "num" button to the left of the +/- buttons and then press which  keyboard key you want to be the high or low key.

 

edit: just realised you were talking about transpose, not splitting, duh.

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I understood.  I suggested method B may be worth trying since it acts in the fashion you were requesting.  These two transposes are different. 

 

A - system setting>enter>yes and no buttons to adjust  (will not reset upon stage setting change)

 

B - transpose set up on a slider using a RPN as a target  (will reset upon stage setting change) 

 

 

However B is a VERY imprecise way of doing things...trying to zoom straight into the transpose number you want using the slider?  May be okay for stay at home users. but not really practical on stage. . 

 

NO keyboard is perfect, so we all must realise that and instead of "glossing" over things, just accept it. I do...no continuous pedal socket is a pretty big omission (for example) however I can accept that in light of the other good things. 

 

Again, I have no real NEED for it so I am not asking for it to act in this fashion at all, hence my comment that you perhaps misunderstood. 99% of the time I remember to reset the transpose, it was more an "off the cuff" suggestion that imo is quite do-able in software. Anyway the OP bought one so good news.

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However B is a VERY imprecise way of doing things...trying to zoom straight into the transpose number you want using the slider?  May be okay for stay at home users. but not really practical on stage. 

 

 

Also, using a slider this way is difficult to control and then see how you are transposed.  I don't recommend this method.  

 

I agree.  :)  

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I'm criticising before I've even got the keyboard BUT I do feel that core functionality should be present in all quality boards, such as this.  The omission of the expression pedal is pretty shabby and I don't understand it.  I'll use one of the external workaround methods but it is a baffling decision. 

 

Despite that annoyance I cannot wait to get my hands on this.  I'm hoping I'll have it by Friday and am so looking forward to trying the keybed and just enjoying it.

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I've played Nords, owned Roland RD700sx, Trinity V3 pro, Karmas...............but I'm currently making do with an 88 semi weighted M-Audio pile of muck!!!!  So to jump back up to a quality keybed such as this will be heaven.  I can't wait.

 

Thanks to everyone for helping above.........I'm sure I'll have plenty of other queries in time, although there thankfully seems to be a lot of knowledge resources around.

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In regards to an expressions pedal: 

 

I'm not sure how most other keyboards are designed.  My impression is that they are not layering 4 independent zones each assigned to receive on MIDI channels 1-4 but able to transmit on 4 channels of 1-16 (independently or simultaneously).  Expression is a per channel control (CC 11).  A global volume control comes through a Sysex message and controls all of the channels at once; but I don't believe most expression pedal volumes create a sysex message, but rather affect the global channel of the keyboard.  But when it comes to the PX, you may or may not want to control all of the channels volumes at once.

 

I believe many if not most keyboards receive and transmit on 1 channel, maybe 2 if they have a keyboard split - and it's generally globally assigned - sequencers may do their own thing.

 

My thought is,  there's much more complexity in terms of incorporating an expression pedal on the PX-5S than may be understood.  Since CC 11 is a per channel control, how do you make the determination of how a zone is controlled by it's use?  Do you make a blanket decision that all channels are controlled at once, or do you have a specific assignment per channel?  Do you control the expression "out" separately from the "in" (the in would be the controlling of the receive channel when playing a zone - the out of course would be the output for the specific zone)?  Since it is an analog potentiometer, you need a conversion routine or hardware at the plug in site.  Does the PX power the pedal in that case?  if so, is there enough battery power to effectively run when an expression pedal is used?  Would this reduce battery life?

 

If the chassis and basic guts were already designed before creating the PX-5s, CASIO may have saved a ton of money by not incorporating and additional plug and was able to channel those funds into something else - like the arpeggiator.  There are so many possibilities of why an expression pedal was left out. 

 

Personally, I can't understand the deep need for one.  What is its advantage over, say, a volume pedal between an amp and the keyboard?  Or is the expression data being assigned to something else like a frequency filter for controlled wah?

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