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Almost decided upon the PX5S but.....


Halion76

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In regards to an expressions pedal: 

 

Since CC 11 is a per channel control, how do you make the determination of how a zone is controlled by it's use?  Do you make a blanket decision that all channels are controlled at once, or do you have a specific assignment per channel?  Do you control the expression "out" separately from the "in" (the in would be the controlling of the receive channel when playing a zone - the out of course would be the output for the specific zone)?  Since it is an analog potentiometer, you need a conversion routine or hardware at the plug in site.  Does the PX power the pedal in that case?  if so, is there enough battery power to effectively run when an expression pedal is used?  Would this reduce battery life?

 

An expression input would likely be lumped in with the sliders, knobs, wheels and other pedals under stage setting>controller edit.  The pedal would be assignable to the same list of CC's as a slider or knob and able to be switched on/off per zone.  I say this because the MZ-2000 has assignable aftertouch, wheels, sustain pedal, expression pedal and a button.  The PX-5s takes that idea and expands it to sliders and knobs. It also greatly expands the list of assignment choices as well as allows for zone configuration.  

 

 

I would mainly use it for my VSTs - eg., sax but also controlled wah as you mentioned.

 

I just don't understand how a hunk of junk like the M-Audio has an expression port but an impressive stage piano/controller like the PX5S has omitted it!! 

 

For sax, you won't be using more than one hand to play it.  This leaves your right hand free to control the pitch and mod wheel.  Expression can be assigned to the modulation wheel for this, or.....

 

Expression can be assigned to any slider, knob, pedal and the mod wheel, and.....  

 

The pedals have programmable envelopes.  The envelopes have attack and release times called "on/off rates".  The on/off rate of the pedal can be preprogrammed by the user as well as adjusted in real time using sliders. 

 

You mention using expression for wah.....some of the factory stage settings are setup for controlling wah with the damper pedal.   

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In regards to an expressions pedal: 

 

I'm not sure how most other keyboards are designed.  My impression is that they are not layering 4 independent zones each assigned to receive on MIDI channels 1-4 but able to transmit on 4 channels of 1-16 (independently or simultaneously).  Expression is a per channel control (CC 11).  A global volume control comes through a Sysex message and controls all of the channels at once; but I don't believe most expression pedal volumes create a sysex message, but rather affect the global channel of the keyboard.  But when it comes to the PX, you may or may not want to control all of the channels volumes at once.

 

I believe many if not most keyboards receive and transmit on 1 channel, maybe 2 if they have a keyboard split - and it's generally globally assigned - sequencers may do their own thing.

 

My thought is,  there's much more complexity in terms of incorporating an expression pedal on the PX-5S than may be understood.  Since CC 11 is a per channel control, how do you make the determination of how a zone is controlled by it's use?  Do you make a blanket decision that all channels are controlled at once, or do you have a specific assignment per channel?  Do you control the expression "out" separately from the "in" (the in would be the controlling of the receive channel when playing a zone - the out of course would be the output for the specific zone)?  Since it is an analog potentiometer, you need a conversion routine or hardware at the plug in site.  Does the PX power the pedal in that case?  if so, is there enough battery power to effectively run when an expression pedal is used?  Would this reduce battery life?

 

If the chassis and basic guts were already designed before creating the PX-5s, CASIO may have saved a ton of money by not incorporating and additional plug and was able to channel those funds into something else - like the arpeggiator.  There are so many possibilities of why an expression pedal was left out. 

 

Personally, I can't understand the deep need for one.  What is its advantage over, say, a volume pedal between an amp and the keyboard?  Or is the expression data being assigned to something else like a frequency filter for controlled wah?

 

 

On most keyboards there is a Rx/TX filter, one simply filters the rx of cc11 for whatever channel it is required...or all of them.

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Is it quick and easy to revert back to factory settings?  I'll be fooling around with some settings etc., and always like the backup of being able to get back to normal asap if something goes wrong!!  Looking forward to trying some of the downloads etc., from here also once I get myself familiar with things.

 

The wait on it being delivered now is annoying already!! :D  Like a big kid on Christmas eve B)

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Sure - first of all nothing is saved until you press "write" - so you can tweak and experiment and then just press one button to go back to the preset. You can save individual Stage Settings or the entire block of 100 (save/load all) to USB. You can also use the data editor on a PC/MAC to edit sounds and save the new sounds on the computer and load them in as needed from there. Lots of options!

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That's great Scott - thanks.

 

The stage settings are intriguing me and I think I'll only get my head around them fully when I get the keyboard.  The title says it all though and it will be so handy to have them setup exactly to my liking when I go back out gigging.

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It takes a little while to get used to how things work because this board is so deep and powerful. :)  When your PX-5S comes in, I highly recommend taking the time to view all the the how-to videos in their entirety with your PX-5S in front of you so you can follow along.  - they are only about an hour long. If you watch one a day you will be up to speed in less than a week. That 5-6 hour investment will save you countless hours in the coming weeks: They are all linked at http://sc3900.wix.com/px-5s#!how-to-videos/c9k5

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Is it quick and easy to revert back to factory settings?  I'll be fooling around with some settings etc., and always like the backup of being able to get back to normal asap if something goes wrong!!  Looking forward to trying some of the downloads etc., from here also once I get myself familiar with things.

Worst case is that you can get the default ALL file from the Downloads area here and load that back in. In fact, you should download the updated ALL file first, as it's a major improvement upon what the PX-5S ships with. Then start playing around.

 

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/6324-px-5s-updated-all-file/

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Got my PX5S this afternoon.  Setup and connected to my DAW within minutes.  Lovely keybed, especially considering the price.  Pleased with the piano and elec piano sounds from the outset.  Will definitely load up the updated file that Joe kindly linked to tomorrow.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just packed my PX5S back up again to go back.  Brilliant board for the money and so much to love about it - but it just wasn't right for me, at the minute.  I love the sound of the MOXF and have decided to go down that route (I already own a MOX6 that I find very nice.....so will be looking in to the MOXF line).

 

Thanks for all the help on here over the past few weeks, it's been much appreciated.  The PX5S has woken me from my Casio slumber and I'll certainly be keeping an eye on future releases and developments.

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The Px-5s takes a figurative minute to get used to.  Once you do, it really becomes an instrument to appreciate.  I discovered a patch the other day that is an electric piano, but when you step on pedal 2, strings swell up underneath.  I was like "cool! what a nice surprise!" There are so many possibilities and so many ways to approach things on the PX-5s that it's a little daunting.  Mike Martin mentions several times in his videos that the presets are templates to give you the building blocks to setup your stage settings the way you want.  So it seems the idea is really to build your own Px.  While there are lots of resources available (hundreds of downloads on this site alone) and there are many of the presets out of the box that one would use, the true beauty and power of the machine comes from spending the time to build your stage settings and tones the way you want.  The Px-5s becomes easy to use after one opens up to its unique methods of control.

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Yeah, I totally agree.  I didn't even get close to seeing what it can do because I'm in the middle of changing my home studio around and looking for the right combination of equipment before I set it all in place.  So while I had the PX5S for a few weeks it was very early days with such a deep keyboard/synth/stage piano/controller!!!! 

 

I do think I'll be getting it again and will ultimately pair it up with a MOXF6.  I am also heavily in to my VSTs so my sonic capabilities should be pretty decent once I'm finished.  So the hunt goes on now for a pre-owned MOXF6 and I'll likely buy the PX5S again.  I was running out of time to return it so I HAD to make a decision.  Shortly after having it boxed up to get returned I knew deep down I'd be buying it again but I just wanted to take a step back and evaluate the different keyboards/combinations that I have tried. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

So there we go............the PX5S is so good I have ordered it twice!! :D

 

As I said above I had a feeling I'd go back to it again but wanted to try the MOXF8 etc., and for the money and key feel etc., the PX5S is going to be my main controller keyboard with the added bonus of some great sounds itself.  I'll match it up with my MOX6 at the minute and will upgrade to a MOXF6 when I see a pre-owned one around.

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  • 1 month later...

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