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Can anyone help with the used CTK-900 I just bought?


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     Hello. After buying 3 Yamaha keyboards in a row I just bought a CTK-900. I'm pretty impressed with it but I can't manage to transfer anything to or from my computer. The manual says to run the program wk3-30.exe off the CD. I don't have the CD but the file is on Casio's site. All I get is ERROR - MIDI Timeout. This is an older keyboard. I think it's from 2008 or 2009.

      Although the Casio software doesn't see the keyboard I am certain I have it connected properly. I use a program called Reaper. Within Reaper I can set the output of a track to the keyboard and it will play through the keyboard. I can also record a track by playing the keyboard and the MIDI data gets into the computer.  I looked a little deeper on Casio's site and it says the program doesn't support Windows 8.1. I have another computer that's running XP so I installed on it and I get the same message. I'm stuck. Can anyone help?

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Thanks for the help, Scott. But that's the same software I already downloaded. I'm still getting ERROR - MIDI timeout. Under File>Preferences>Input MIDI device my only choice is USB2.0-MIDI. On the same page under Output MIDI device my choices are Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth, USB2.0-MIDI or MIDIOUT2 (USB2.0-MIDI). No matter what choices I make, if I click the refresh icon on the keyboard side I get ERROR MIDI timeout even if I pick Microsoft GS Wavetable synth.

 

There is a big left arrow and a right arrow in the middle of the window. I believe that if it's working correctly I should be able to click a file on the PC side and then click the arrow to send it across. The arrows are greyed out. I can select a file on the PC side but clicking the arrow doesn't do anything.

 

Casio's instructions say that if get that error message, I don't have it connected properly. Yes, I have it wired from IN to OUT and from OUT to IN. And yes, I have tried switching it even though that's wrong. If I try it with the cable unplugged I get ERROR - Can't find MIDI device. I'm starting to wonder if I should try resetting it to factory settings.

 

Once again, thanks for any help you can offer.

 

 

Joel

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Not certain about the 900 but on the XW-P1 and many other manufacturer's keyboards MIDI IN OUT is NOT always enabled by default.

 

Skim thru your manual and see what the MIDI config options are for your keyboard.  This has to be done on the keyboard itself.

 

Gary

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I have a CTK-900 (got it in 2006) and have used it and the software with XP and Windows 8 without an issue, with the M-Audio UNO USB MIDI adapter. What adapter are you using?

 

It's possible that the keyboard's own MIDI settings in the function menu aren't right, but this doesn't sound like a problem with the keyboard itself, unless the MIDI terminals themselves are damaged. But you may want to check the MIDI settings in the menu system.

 

In fact, you may want to just re-Initialize the whole system (InitSys System Reset, page E-70) to get it back to its factory settings, just to eliminate a bunch of other possibilities.

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I did not know compatibility mode existed. It's pretty cool but it didn't help. I can't seem to find any setting within the keyboard that would be causing a problem. The one thing I have noticed is that the instructions definitely say "MIDI interface" I'm looking at Amazon and a MIDI cable is about 7 bucks but a MIDI interface is about 35. I'm pretty sure that what I'm using is a MIDI cable. Like I said previously I'm getting data to go both ways using another program. Can anyone enlighten me what the difference between MIDI interface and MIDI cable is. Does the older software need to have an interface? I don't want to spend 35 bucks for no reason.

 

Thanks again 

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No, when I said "adapter", I meant what are you plugging it into on the PC? I guess you're not using something like the MIDI USB, so... a soundcard? What's on the other end of those cables, and what are they plugging into?

 

Or do you have some sort of external box in between?

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When it comes to MIDI "cable" and MIDI "interface" a lot of vendors use sloppy and confusing terminology.

 

Technically a MIDI "cable" is just a straight thru 5 PIN DIN Male to Male Cable with no electronics in between.

 

What Amazon tends to sell as MIDI CABLE and MIDI INTERFACE is the same thing.

 

It consists of two 5 PIN DIN cables attached to a blob of plastic or a box and a third USB MALE cable coming out the other end.

 

The technical term for this is Class Compliant USB MIDI Interface or adapter.

 

Basically in its simplest form this is the only way you can connect a MIDI Port Device to a Modern Computer.

 

If your computer is already talking to your CTK then you have an interface, regardless of what you want to call it.

 

Gary

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Ok I am home after a long day of work. I am sorry rsantjohn, I didn't see your post before my last post before my post. I tried doing a system reset like you said. Unfortunately it didn't do the trick. I am becoming very suspicious of my adapter or interface or whatever else it may be called. I don't remember where I bought it but I've had it a couple years. It works fine with my Yamaha keyboard and it works with the Casio, just not with the Data Manager program. It's a Sanoxy USB MIDI cable converter PC to Music Keyboard.

 

http://www.amazon.com/SANOXY%C2%AE-USB-MIDI-Converter-Keyboard/dp/B003KXEDVQ/

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I own a few of those generic $5 Amazon Chinese MIDI Interfaces.

 

Occasionally you get a dud or a sudden death failure but for the most part they do the job and they are reliable enough.

 

If, as you say, it works with other programs and other keyboards then I'd have to say that you may simply be out of luck running the software.

 

If Casio hasn't updated it for Win 7 and 8 then compatibility mode would be your last option.  If you can't get it running with a Win XP compatibility setting then I think you may be out of luck.

 

The USB2.0-MIDI OUT and IN are the right Device names for your interface and they are being recognized by the software.

 

The MIDI OUT connector should should connect to MIDI IN on the Keyboard and the MIDI IN should connect to the MIDI OUT.

 

A couple of hardware thoughts though.

 

1)  Are you connected to USB on your computer thru a hub?  That could affect timing and performance of the interface.  Try connecting directly to the computer.

 

2)  It's possible that there may be some quirky incompatibility in the interface.  It may be worthwhile to pick up a second $5 interface just in case yours is a dud or better yet, buy a different name brand interface for testing purposes.  Amazon has a good return policy if it doesn't work any better for you.

 

3) There may be a hardware failure in one or both of your CTK's MIDI Ports.  If your firmware is up to date and nothing else works it would cost more to fix than the keyboard itself is worth on the used market.

 

Gary

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I reread your original message and I'll just throw this one out there.  Try downloading the program again, uninstalling it completely and reinstalling on your XP machine.

 

The program or possibly even the original archive may be corrupt.

 

If there's a config file in there somewhere try deleting it and let it reinitialize itself.

 

Gary

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At this point, I would try to eliminate (or implicate) the Casio software itself. You should be able to verify the connection between the PC, the cable, and the CTK-900 without involving the Casio Management software.

 

Check out this: http://www.musicrepo.com/testing-midi-device/

 

...which should lead you to checking this:

 

http://www.numark.com/kb/article/1619

 

...and downloading and trying this diagnostic tool:

 

http://www.midiox.com/

 

I work primarily on a Mac, so I've never had to use MIDI-Ox, but everyone who talks about it considers it indispensable. It's 32-bit, Win98-Vista, but I can't imagine it won't run on 8. 

 

Short articles, short testing time, just down to the basics. Check them out, and let us know what you find. Try it with the Yamahas, too, as a point of comparison. In the end, I think it'll be your USB MIDI Cable Converter, but you have to test each part of the chain first.

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Just a quick response. You guys gave a lot of information and I don't have enough time to delve into everything tonight. That video was both entertaining and informative. MIDI-OX does show MIDI data when I play the keyboard. Under Device Manager, the keyboard shows up as USB2.0 when it's plugged in and disappears when it's unplugged. I will look into this more tomorrow. rsaintjohn, you said you have the same keyboard. If you get a chance... on the face of the keyboard, about 3 inches to the left of the word CASIO it says Data Access and there's a green LED. Does that light up on your keyboard under any circumstances?

Thank you everyone for the help and have a good night.

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...it says Data Access and there's a green LED. Does that light up on your keyboard under any circumstances?

 

Only when I use the Casio Music Management software, when I'm sending/receiving Tone Data. That could be getting a listing of the tones, editing a tone, sending an edited tone back to the library, using any of the other utilities, etc. It might be blinky or it might be steady, depending on what I'm doing. But, again, only when using the Casio software.

 

It does not light up at all when I'm sending a software sequence via MIDI to play out through the CTK-900, nor does it light up when I'm using the 900 as a controller for other software.

 

So the light is not there to register or display MIDI activity, if that's part of your question. It's really only about accessing the keyboard memory (or card memory, on other models) and some of its internal settings.

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I have succesfuuly used the Casio data manager software with the XW-P1 and the typical usb to midi interface cable referred to here. Windows does not always like data manager, I have had ocassions where it fails to connect for reasons i can't explain and other times it is fine. Driver compatibility is almost always the issue.

 

I am curious that you have 2 seemingly similar midi out choices besides the wavetable synth. Keeping in mind Windows own midi drivers have not always worked for me-I needed to install the Casio specific midi usb driver to get my XW and PX to "handshake" with my Windows computer (I run XP and 7) you may have a driver conflict since you have 2 USB midi out choices. There should only be one option for the USB midi out. And if this is true (I'm guessing at this point which I have to do alot to get Windows to work properly at times) it may be interrupting the midi in/out sequence that must occur for data manager to work. This may be why you can get data in and out with Reaper-it doesn't have to complete a "handshake" process to work, you can use it with just midi data going in, or have it play back midi with just data out. The data\manager software will not work with just midi in or out connected-it needs to work as a 2-way system as far as I can see. And if it can't, it won't work at all, at least it hasn't for me.

 

One possibility-look in device manager and delete the drivers you find under "universal serial bus controllers" or under "sound, video and game controllers". Restart your computer so the drivers are completely inactivated and uninstalled (without your midi cable plugged into the computer) then plug your usb midi cable into your usb port and it should install Windows "native" drivers specifically for that cable, you should se the prompt telling you it is doing that. Now I would install the specific Casio driver on their website here, make sure you install the proper 32-bit or 64-bit version:

 

http://support.casio.com/en/support/download.php?cid=008&pid=20

 

and only now would I connect the keyboard to the usb midi cable, with the keyboard off, then turn on after you have started the data manager software. I'm not sure this will work, but based upon what I have read here, it could be a Windows driver problem. Windows does not like the new midi spec, it seems to need the additional Casio specific driver. I don't believe the high resolution midi driver was native to Windows XP which Casio software needs. I think Windows 7 uses one, but depending on how your drivers installed, it may still be using the older non compatible driver especially if you do an upgrade install from XP to 7.  Hope this solves the problem..

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I just want to point out that with my CTK-900 and M-Audio UNO MIDI adapter, I have never had to install any drivers for either Windows XP, Windows 7 or Windows 8. It was just plug and play.

 

braindead, did you install any special drivers for the Sanoxy or the Yamahas in the past? Jokeyman has certainly outlined a good procedure for trying to get things back to a "Day One" state, as far as MIDI on Windows goes.

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Those cheap Chinese MIDI adapters all use Generic Class Compliant USB  MIDI drivers that Windows installs automatically.

 

Likewise the Dual MIDI OUT ports are not a cause for concern.  They show up on my Linux system using those adapters as well.  I think they are intended for use in cases where you have more than one MIDI device daisy chained on the adapter.

 

You can access the primary device from either one though.  I think it's "a feature not a bug" ;)

 

From what he's mentioned so far I don't think it's a driver or a hardware issue.  It's a timing issue.  More specifically a TIMEOUT issue.

 

I think the probable causes are 1) Running the adapter on a USB Hub. OR 2) Perhaps simply a slow machine or one overloaded with crapware and viruses.  OR 3) The software is simply not compatible with Win 8.1

 

It may not even be compatible with the version of XP he tried it on.  XP is up to what now?  SP2?  SP3?  I've seen updates and upgrades hopelessly mangle software in both Windows and Linux.  If the software is simply broken then chances are he'll never get it running properly.  The fact that the keyboard and interface run well enough with DAW software is a very strong indication of this possibility,. 

 

I think we're flogging a dead horse here guys.

 

Gary

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