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Action of Casio PX-5S versus Roland A-88


Courtlaw

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  • 5 months later...

Great subject. I went through the same decision process, considering the A-88, and decided on the PX-5S. I never had an opportunity to try the A-88, but others have reported it to be sluggish as well, so I bought the PX-5s given new pricing considerations and the fact it has a pretty nice sound engine. 

 

I have had this keyboard now for about 1 month, and have compared the action to my off-brand baby grand piano, an upright piano, and from memory, a Steinway B baby grand I no longer have access to. To me there is no doubt about it. This keyboard is sluggish compared to any real piano I have ever played.The Steinway was the hardest (and the loudest) but not as much as the 5s. Compared to the upright, the PX is far heavier and slower in responding. And even compared to the others, it just does not play as smoothly. Maybe a piano scholar that has played on many instruments can find other real pianos with this hard an action, but I doubt it. After all, the craft in making a quality real-piano keybed is to make it as fast and easy to play as possible in spite of the mechanics. This one seems to have been designed to make playing harder just to make it feel like a real piano. That should not be the intent. The intent should be to make it like the fastest real piano action available. And in reality, it would have been nice if there was some mechanical adjustment internally that could graduate the sluggishness of the keys to make it play more like the real thing the USER is used to. Playing the Billy Joel thing on another real piano is not very difficult, but it just doesn't come off right on the PX-5s - no way. The keys are just too damn slow-moving compared to a real piano. It is like molasses. And even changing that setting to 0, it just does not cut it in my opinion. This setting does not change the slow return of the key. The reason I found this post was that I was searching to see if anybody had attempted any hardware modifications to make the action faster. So far I have not found it, but will post it here if I do.

 

In all fairness, I have to say that other actions I was able to test at the music store were not much better if at all. So maybe this is the best you can get out there, and certainly many have the opinion this is it. My wish is that the keys would move more rapidly. It is just a slow action. Maybe for those that play live and love to hit the keys really hard (as many of us do in a live, loud performance situation) this is a great action. But I don't think it is meant to play Chopin or Rachmaninoff.

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I've been trying to play Chopin on it myself! My problem is my own playing though, not the keyboard. I was being facetious. :D

 

But this video is not a great example, will you not agree? This player will experience a much improved playing experience if he just puts the 5S on a sturdy stand. That instrument is bouncing up and down on that X stand, and can't feel like a good action that way. I used it like this for a few days myself and quickly realized I needed something like a Z stand that does not wobble side to side. This made a huge difference! Get rid of the X stand! Get a Z or something with side-to-side stability.

Z stand.PNG

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Billy studied serious classical music when he was young-while other kids would make fun of him on his way to lessons, at least that's what I heard. So he took up boxing to defend himself and became very good at it. i imagine that helped his chops quite a bit.  i remember being really pissed off back in the late 60s-his band was the house band in one of the clubs we were trying to get into, I think in North Bergen or somewhere around there in NJ. i forget what they called themselves back then, something silly like the Herd or something, would have to look it up.  he was good even back then, we couldn't bump his band out of there. it struck me much later when he became famous and I realized who he was. Also got to see him in 1974-75 I recall-he came to William Paterson College and performed on the Shea auditorium stage-where we did our student recitals-what a great show. I got in free backstage-I was downstairs practicing in one the practice rooms-the music dept. was right next to and below Shea Auditorium so it was a short trip. And i agree, the PX response is a little sluggish for fast passages, but gets better after a few beers dropped in it..................:beer:

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18 hours ago, Jokeyman123 said:

...And i agree, the PX response is a little sluggish for fast passages, but gets better after a few beers dropped in it..................:beer:

 

Thanks for backing up that assertion. The problems is that, on a real piano, once the escapement releases, the key feels a lot lighter than these keys, which continue to weigh against your finger as if the hammer had never fired. I also agree this is an outstanding instrument barring this issue, and I also believe it's probably a problem for most other piano-like actions out there. I have not had a chance to actually compare many of them, but the ones I did try pretty much have a similar feel. Yet I read many reviews that claim this is one of the best-feeling actions on the market. I wish it were just a bit lighter. I hope, as others have stated, that it gets softer and quicker with use. I may have to try pouring in some beer.

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23 hours ago, AlenK said:

No no.  To really develop your technique you need one of these:

 

:lol:

I thought I was getting dizzy when I started watching it until I realized what was happening :D  That is a heck of a stand! Once you learn to play like this, you can play on anything!

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On 12/29/2017 at 11:27 AM, µC-Kuper said:

After all, the craft in making a quality real-piano keybed is to make it as fast and easy to play as possible in spite of the mechanics. This one seems to have been designed to make playing harder just to make it feel like a real piano.

And I thought it was just me.  Part of my self doubt was based on the fact that I have wimpy arms, and hadn't spent much time with a real piano in the past decade or so.  (Plenty of keyboards and percussion, just no grands).  So I knew I was/am better suited for semi- or un-weighted keyboards.

 

The action on the PX-5S that I just got feels to me heavier than I remember Baldwins, Steinways, or Bosendorfers ever feeling.  In fact, the only thing I can think of that had a heavier action was the Fender Rhodes suitcase I played in college in the early 1980s, which I swear required me to jump up and down with concrete blocks strapped to my torso, just to get a mezzo-forte sound. :-)

 

So yeah, I wish my PX-5S had about a 30% lighter action, but it's still the best sounding electric grand I have ever encountered, with plenty of other inspiring sounds.  I guess if I want to perform Angry Young Man (or my old standby, Billy the Kid) I'll just have to use a lighter controller.  Hmm -- that M-Audio Keystation 88 in the back corner may still have some use....

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5 hours ago, Tom Williams said:

The action on the PX-5S that I just got feels to me heavier than I remember Baldwins, Steinways, or Bosendorfers ever feeling.  In fact, the only thing I can think of that had a heavier action was the Fender Rhodes suitcase I played in college in the early 1980s, which I swear required me to jump up and down with concrete blocks strapped to my torso, just to get a mezzo-forte sound. :-)

 

So yeah, I wish my PX-5S had about a 30% lighter action, but it's still the best sounding electric grand I have ever encountered, with plenty of other inspiring sounds.  I guess if I want to perform Angry Young Man (or my old standby, Billy the Kid) I'll just have to use a lighter controller.  Hmm -- that M-Audio Keystation 88 in the back corner may still have some use....

 

Totally agree. i actually tried playing Angry Young Man on it. Could not really pull it off. I could on a synth action - no problem. I have to try it on my baby grand. But I can say with certainty that I had a pre-WWII Steinway 6 footer that was rebuilt. It had a hard action, but nothing as hard as this, and it was fast in spite of it being hard. And my neighbor has an old upright, and the action on it feels about 1/3 as hard as the PX-5S, and it's also very fast. Maybe this is a compromise between a grand and a Fender suitcase. 

 

I think everyone is confirming the slow action and our like for the instrument in spite of it.

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I have yet to find the speed limit of my PX-5S. It has taken everything I have thrown at it without complaint.  Can I play a synth action faster?  Yes, solely because I developed my hands and arms to play on the weighted action.  Before I practiced on weighted, I couldn't play a synth action nearly as fast.  So the moral of the story, if it feels heavy to you, practice more. You'll come away a better player. Plus you will be able to play even faster and easier on anything that's lighter.  Win win.

 

 

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1 hour ago, BradMZ said:

I have yet to find the speed limit of my PX-5S. It has taken everything I have thrown at it without complaint.  Can I play a synth action faster?  Yes, solely because I developed my hands and arms to play on the weighted action.  Before I practiced on weighted, I couldn't play a synth action nearly as fast.  So the moral of the story, if it feels heavy to you, practice more. You'll come away a better player. Plus you will be able to play even faster and easier on anything that's lighter.  Win win.

 

 

 

BradMZ, The issue is mostly related to key repetition -- not playing fast all over the keyboard, even though this is a factor as well. This video does not prove much. Show me a video that compares a skilled, professional player playing a difficult and fast piece on a regular grand (like a Steinway or Kawai say), and then the same on the PX-5S, and let's hear the results and the comments that the professional can make about his experience.  Also, I have seen the mechanical test video. My fingers are not as consistent as that mechanical device to find the sweet spot for single key repetition. In my playing on the PX-5S so far, to get the key repetition right, I have to find a sweet spot of strength and distance from the key to get it to work.

 

I think we can put this issue to bed. I think many players have concurred that this action is a bit sluggish for single-key repetition with a human hand, and I don't think there is any denying about this. It's a great keyboard, but it has its quirks like any other, and if Casio desires to improve it for a future release, it should heed these types of comments, and make some changes to make the action less sluggish. And that would be outstanding.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Quote

I think we can put this issue to bed. I think many players have concurred that this action is a bit sluggish for single-key repetition with a human hand, and I don't think there is any denying about this. It's a great keyboard...
 

 

 

I agree.  I've had my PX since 2013 I believe, and hoped over time the action would "wear down" so to speak and be a little quicker.  It hasn't really.  It's just a function of the mechanics.  The keys just don't return to a fully playable position fast enough, or rather as fast as I would like, after being pressed.
 

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