WK3300 file naming?

[Jokeyman123]

After studying the manuals for the various older WK models, I am still confused about how Casio designed the naming conventions for the WK3300 specifically.

 

My board is a PX575R-same apparently as the WK3300 except for the 88 key weighted action, a very nice older Casio I just added to my Casio collection. and since there is no category for posting about the PX575, I figured the closest I can get is here.

 

One part of the manual describes files as Z01, Z02, Z03  depending upon whether it is a tone, a drawbar organ, a registration, a rhythm etc. Another section of the manual describing the SD card functions shows file names as U_ORGN00, U_DRUM00 etc.for the same files as the Z01 names and yet, when I download the various files from the Casio (European) website-where the older IDES 4.0 software is available also which I have installed and studied-whether it is a tone file, a drum file, an organ tone, a tone with wavfile or even the all package file, the file is a ckf!

 

Now I have studied and understood the file structures of the XW-P1 (took awhile) and the PX-350 (again took awhile!) and I have no problems working through loading, saving files to their respective cards and thumb drives or back and forth on the computer with both of these, but this one escapes me completely. Since .ckf files seem to be standard for rhythms on many other Casios, but only for rhythms, what is the WK3300/PX575/PX410 working with here? 

 

I guess I can just start creating and saving different types of files on the PX/WK, send to the SD card and see what these look like in the computer, but it would be helpful to know for example if I can use other .ckf rhythm, organ, or tone files designed for the other older Casio WKs, such as the 3800, 3100 et al. since there isn't much specifically for the WK3300, although there is certainly a huge selection of tones in this keyboard, and it sounds fantastic, especially considering how "dated" this keyboard is. Especially pleased with the organs and electric pianos, amazing how good these are even stacked up against my much more expensive "workstations". and it reads .wavfiles for creating tones and drums, very nice.

 

Thanks to anyone who can help me understand what is compatible with what! (Hello Ted, are you out there? You seem to be the expert with the WKs. Jokeyman stumped! Help!)

[Brad Saucier]

Since the 575 is a Privia, this might be better suited in the "Other Privia Keyboards" section.  The section that has not been created yet.    

As far as compatible files:  If it's a clue, as far as I know, MZ-2000 files are not compatible with any other Casio.  Those files extensions are C00, C01, etc...   CKF files will not work with the MZ.  Might be that is the case with Z01, Z02...etc.   Since the 3300 uses those files, at least that model "appears" compatible with the 575.  Should also note, XW synths and PX-5s both use ZPF files yet are NOT compatible with one another.  Yes another piece to the puzzle.  

 

And yes...the 575r should sound good.  It's a ZPI model.  It's one of the many spawns of the MZ-2000.  I would not expect anything less.  You have a good dose of MZ-2000 in there.  

[Jokeyman123]

Nice! Thanks BradMZ, so how do I create a new category "Other Privia Keyboards"-sounds like a good idea. Should I ask Scott or is this something I can do myself? There certainly are enough other Privias now! Sounds interesting that this is so similar to the MZ2000 which looks like it was one of the more versatile and interesting Casios.  Am really getting a kick out of this old PX575, it's a pretty amazing set of keys. The action is wonderful, some of the orchestral instruments are definitely a cut above many-surprising how good the saxes are, including the sopranos which usually rot on even the more expensive workstations. And the operating system is very good, great screen. I'm figuring on hooking up a small external controller wih slide controls to use as drawbars, like the Wk and CTK models. The only real limitation I see is my inability to switch Leslie speed up and down and switch percussion in and out, like the XW-P1. Can be done from a menuu but not accessible any other way I can see. It's pulled me away from the XW and PX350 (at least for awhile!)

[- T -]

Johnathon

I think I have probably answered most of your questions in various replies to other members' questions over the past couple of years, but when I tried to round them up to post links to them for you, I could not find all of them, and what I did find was a little too fragmented to make much sense.  So, maybe it is time for me to include all of the information here, in a single coherent post, for future reference.  As much as Casio may wish that these older models would go away, I think they are still going to be with us for a while.  The WK-3XXX models are still quite popular, as are some of the equivalent CTK models, and many who sold, or otherwise disposed of, their old model when they got one of the new ones, now wish they had kept the old unit to use along with the new, as they have now forever lost some favorite tones and rhythms.  A favorite feature that they lost was the abbreviated "sampling" capabilities of some of the older models.  It was just the thing for adding some "spice" to an otherwise bland performance.  Perhaps some day we shall have a 76 key XW-G1 with auto-accompaniment rhythms.

So, let's start with the IDES software.  There were four versions of IDES software, and each version was specific to the keyboard model(s) that it was designed for.  The reason for this specificity was because the IDES software was the interface between the User Memory of its keyboard and the .ckf files that you have asked about.  IDES-1 and IDES-2 were for the CTK-691 and WK-3000/3500.  IDES-3 was for the CTK-900 and WK-3200/3700.  IDES-4 was for the WK-3300/3800/8000, as well as the PX-410R and PX-575R.  If you have tried using IDES with the PX-575R, and it did not work, you were probably not using IDES-4, or you were just trying to download a particular file to it that would not work with it.  The CTK-671 used an entirely separate "CFK Manager" software program for similar purposes.  The IDES software, itself, was strictly for data transfers between a PC and the keyboard, but each version came with a Tone Parameter Editor module, a Wave Converter module, and of particular interest here, a Rhythm Converter module for converting Standard MIDI Files (SMF) and CPT rhythm patterns from older Casio models to .ckf rhythm files.

The .ckf (for Casio Keyboard File) files were a, sort of, "one size fits all" file distribution format and were, to Casio keyboards, what ZIP files are to PC's.  A ckf file might be a single tone, or a single rhythm, or single Drawbar Organ voice, or a single DSP setting, etc, or it could contain several tones or several rhythms, etc. or a it could contain a complete mix of any number of the foregoing.   It was the job of the IDES software to open the ckf file and sort the various components into the appropriate types for download into the appropriate sections of User Memory on the keyboard according to the following scheme:

Z00 - Rhythm Files
Z01 - Registration Files
Z02 - Song Files
Z03 - Drum Sound Files (with Waves)
Z04 - Drawbar Organ Tone Files
Z05 - Tone Files
Z06 - Tone Files (with Waves)
Z07 - DSP Setting Files
Z08 - Package Files (Song files with associated Tones and Rhythms)
Z09 - All User Data Files (Backup Files)

Once a ckf file is downloaded to the keyboard's User Memory with the IDES software, the ckf format is lost.  If that data is later brought back up to the PC with the IDES software, it comes back in the associated Z0x format.  This also applies to the newer CTK/WK-6XXX/7XXX models.  If a ckf rhythm is downloaded to User Memory on one of the newer models, and then later brought back up to the PC, it comes back in the new AC7 rhythm format.  As I mentioned earlier, the ckf format was just a generic "distribution" format used by the Casio download websites.

As far as inter-model file compatibility, I have never found a way of telling which ckf files were made for which specific model of keyboard, other than Casio stating as much on their download websites, and any time you try to use a file on one model that was made for a different model, you can run into problems.  A Tone file made for one model will not sound correctly, or will not work at all, on a different model, if the target model is not equipped with the same wave sample as the original keyboard.  Likewise, a rhythm file from one model will not sound correctly if the target model does not contain the same rhythm tones as the original model, but it has been my experience that the WK-3XXX and related CTK models that we are discussing here, being so similar in design, can use each others files with little problem.  As far as rhythm files, this has even carried over to the newer CTK/WK-6XXX/7XXX models, but with the redesign of their sound engines, all files other than rhythm files are incompatible.  For the WK-3XXX model line, most files are forward compatible, but since newer releases usually have expanded capabilities that require more user memory than older models, you can run into memory size compatibility problems when trying to use files from newer models on older models.  What I normally tell anyone asking about this, it is always worth a try.  You are not going to damage anything.  A file from one model may or may not work on another model.  All you have to lose is a little time.  At very worst, you may have to reboot the keyboard if a file confuses the target keyboard's operating system, but all of these units have operating systems in Read Only Memory (ROM), so you are not going to hurt anything.

I hope this answers most of your questions and encourages you to keep experimenting with that 575R.

With that, I've got a hockey game to go watch.

Regards and good luck !

Ted
 

[Jokeyman123]

Ted, I owe you big time. This is one of most informative and lucid posts I have read here, and I'm not just blowing smoke-rings. Now I understand. If we ever cross paths, I owe you a dinner or at least lunch! This is precisely what I could not understand and now it is clear to me.

 

This is a post that should placed in a faq, like the ones happyrat has compiled for the XW's, especially since it covers quite alot of info that applies to several different models apparently.

 

I could not understand the logic of the different file-naming conventions and have hesitated to do anything further as far as creating new tones, rhythms, etc. with the PX575 since I had no idea what was going on, and it is not clear in any of the manuals I've studied. I haven't had any experience with the older Casio Wks, CTKs and had no idea that all older .ckf files were structured like this and that once in the keyboard would assume their rightful functions. Now I can move forward with IDES 4.0.

 

The difficulty which is unfamiliar to me, having learned so many different file formats for so many different keyboards and software programs, is that Casio would use the same file naming convention (.ckf) for different file types which serve quite distinct functions, fairly opposite to everything else I've ever used!

 

Will be interesting to play with at least the different later rhythm files if nothing else for the newer WKs and CTKs to see what works with the PX575. There is very little info about the PX575/410 on the web, except for what we are creating here. And repeating myself, but this seems to be one of the deeper and more interesting (IMO) of the earlier Casios-sort of a cousin to the rare MZ2000. I like it, alot. How did you learn all this?

 

Thanks again, Ted.