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problem when extracting System Track on WK-7600


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hi, newbie here,

 

I am having a problem when extracting the System Track 'a' to 'b' tracks. I have used Quick Record to record a 2

minute song segment. At 1:45, I configure a voice change along with associated mixer setting thru a registration

memory recall. this registration recall changes the voice on a5 to a Sequence Lead with DSP Line=on and mixer effect

set to a user effect ( effect 101).

 

Now when playing the recorded song back from the System Track, everything plays exactly as it was recorded.

However, after performing an extract on the system track, my corresponding 'b' track for the voice in question now

has its DSP line set to OFF, and my user effect is no longer active - the mixer effect that shows up (Funtion+Mixer

-->DSP) is the effect that was in place prior to the registration memory recall.

 

to recap: system Track part a05 has DSP-line=On & DSP=|101 user effect| - but after extraction, track b05 has dsp-

line=off and  mixer effect=37 (which was the effect cfg'd before registration recall). Is this normal and what do I need to do in order to preserve these settings when extracting?

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As an update to my situation, I have used the event editor after extracting the Sytem Track to edit the Tone change to a user tone. The user tone uses a user DSP which is a set of presets for the Phaser effect. After editing my Tone Change event, the correct User Tone displays after the change, but my user DSP has changed to ton:phaser rather than my user DSP.

 

I am not sure if this indicates that the phaser is using a default set of params, or if ton:phaser is now using my presets, nor can I figure out how to tell.

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Another update: I thought that maybe if I issued a DSP change event, I could specifically set my user DSP, but looking at allowable events for b channels, there is no DSP change event, only in the system track. Is it allowable to use user DSPs in the 'b' channels, and if so, how can I achieve this?

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Quellis

 

I started with simple Registration changes to change tones.  I assigned the Stereo Grand Piano to Reg-1 and an EP to Reg-2.  I did a Quick Record and verified that my Reg changes were recorded.  I then extracted the System Track to the B Tracks and verified that my Reg changes were still there.  So, we know that simple Registration changes ARE able to survive extraction.  I then assigned the Stereo Grand Piano to both Reg-1 and Reg-2.  I turned on DSP in both Reg-1 and Reg-2 and assigned ton Delay to Reg-1 and Phaser 2 to Reg-2.  Once again, I did a Quick Record and verified that my Reg changes, along with their imbedded DSP setting changes had been recorded.  I extracted this System Track to the B Tracks and noted that the DSP setting changes had NOT survived the extraction.  I did not notice DSP being turned OFF, as you apparently have.  I my case, which ever DSP type was active at the start of the recording, remained active throughout the entire recording.  If I started the recording with the Phaser Reg, Phaser stayed active for the entire recording.  It never changed to ton Delay.  If I started the recording with the ton Delay Reg, ton Delay stayed active for the entire recording.  It never changed to Phaser.  Understand, this is only in the EXTRACTED file.  The non-extracted file worked just fine.  A fixed DSP type can survive extraction just fine.  It is the DSP type CHANGE that can not survive extraction.

 

I am seeing this on both my CTK-7000 and my WK-7500.  Since you are also seeing this on your WK-7600, and since the manuals make no reference to this as a limitation, I would say this is a bug that has been in the CTK/WK-6XXX/7XXX operating system since its inception.  I have not noticed this before now, as I normally do not extract the System Track, and if I do, I apparently have not done anything with DSP changes during the recording.  At least you know it is not a defect with your particular WK-7600, or apparently not something you are doing wrong.  I kept my tests as simple as possible.  The only workaround I can think of is to re-imbed the DSP type changes back into the extracted file manually.  If you do get into manually inserting codes, keep in mind that you can not have CHORUS and DSP both active at the same time, and CHORUS takes precedent.  So, if you have a Preset or User Tone active that uses CHORUS, you can not activate DSP, or if you have DSP active and subsequently select a Preset or User Tone that uses CHORUS, it will dump DSP.  This is a global limitation of the keyboard and would affect both non-extracted and extracted song files.  I just bring it up here as a reminder of something to watch out for when you start embedding codes manually in song files.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Ted

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanx for your reply,tnicoson. I have not been on this site for a while, so I just noticed your reply. Thank you for your effort in reproducing my issue, I'm glad to know that it's not just my own ignorance :). just to let you know, when I record to SMF and playback from SD Card, the song also plays fine and DSP type change seems to take effect. But when I take same SMF file and import into REAPER and transmit same MIDI, my DSP tpye does not change on the board. I'm not sure if this is for the same reason or not - I assume a remote MIDI stream should be allowed to change DSP type on 7600?

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One other question....

 

you mentioned as a workaround to "re-imbed the DSP type changes back into the extracted file manually". I had already looked into this as a possibility before my original post, but according to my manual, DSP type is a system track event, and it doesn't seem to be possible to embed this on a 'B' track (at least not thru the on board event editor) - maybe this is why the DSP is not changing in the first place, that the DSP type change event cannot be written to an extracted track.

 

Is there a way to embed a DSP Type Change event into a 'B' track?

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Quellius

 

Sorry for my short sightedness on the "workaround".  I think you are correct, and that is most likely the reason behind this dilemma.  When a song recording is started, the keyboard creates a song header that contains all of the keyboard's set up.  This data is fixed, so is able to survive extraction, but after extraction, a DSP change that comes along later when it is no longer part of a System Track, doesn't work.  At the moment, I do not see any way around this.

 

Regards,

 

Ted

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