Problem with sliders

[Bruno888]

I have my casio px 5s connected to an old casio ctk-481 via midi in; im using the old casio to control the sounds of the casio privia px 5s, zone 1 is assigned to the keybard internal sound generator, and zone 2 is controlled by the casio ctk481. Everything its going well, but then i noticed that i cant control the sound of zone 2 with the sliders. Specifically, slider 3 is assigned to control expression for that zone, but it isnt controlling anything. 
But then when i select a different stage seting, i can control the fast rate and vibrato for the zone 2 with the sliders, without changing anything, apparently. Whats going on, why i can use the sliders in one case and not in the other one???? 

It seems that the sliders work in the second case because they are controlling a DSP parameter, wich can be controlled this way. As expression isnt a dsp parameter, it cannot be controlled that way. 
That said, i still dont understand why it happens, why the dsp parameter can be controlled and expression cannot. 
Is there a way to control expression of zone 2 (external device) with the sliders??? Do i need another midi cable, to connect the privia midi out to the old casio midi in, in order to do that??

[Joe Muscara]

Wait - which sliders? I'm not familiar with the 481.

[Brad Saucier]

If I understand this, you want to use the 481 to control zone 2 while simultaneously using the sliders on the PX-5s to control zone 2.  Am I correct?  I would start by using the PX-5s alone to control zone 2.  Do not use the 481.  This way you rule out midi as the problem while trying to get the slider to work.  Sliders can be set to CC11 expression to control a zone.  You must have something setup wrong. 

[Bruno888]

Joe Muscara, the sliders are on the PX-5s, not on the CTK 481.
You are correct, BradMZ, thats the problem. Of course, when i use the  PX-5s alone to control zone 2, everything works well. 
But for some reason taht i dont understand, i cannot control zone 2 with the CTK481 and control its parameters via sliders at the same time. It seems the sliders can control a zone only if that zone is using the internal sound generator. Is there a way to control zone 2 with  the CTK and the sliders??
Besides, i dont get why i can still manipulate the DSP parameters assigned to zone 2 whit the sliders, but not another parameter. 

[Brad Saucier]

The PX-5s sound engine has 16 channels. The 4 zones control the first 4 channels.   Are you sure the CTK-481 is controlling channel 2 on the PX-5s?  Zone 2 is channel 2.  Are you hearing the tone you selected in zone 2 when you play the CTK?  

[Bruno888]

Yeah, i set the CTK to channel 2, and it is controlling the tone i selected for zone 2. I hear it. 
Maybe it has something to do with the midi implementation chart of the CTK 481? 

 

http://support.casio.com/storage/en/manual/pdf/EN/008/CTK481_EN.pdf

[Brad Saucier]

It's time you detail as much as possible for us.  Maybe a video would help.

[Choppin]

Is the stage setting you are trying to control a hex layer?  Those are controlled with NPRNs and while you may be able to play the notes, you may not be able to control the sliders the way you want.  

 

 

Here's an excerpt from a previous thread regarding using the kronos to control the volume on the px-5s hex layers:

 

 

 

Choppin wrote:

 

The hex layer messages are a little more complicated.  Also note, that hex layers can only be played on channels 1 and 2.  To control the volume for a hex layer, you have to use NRPNs.

 

The message is initiated by sending (Hex values) Bchannel 63 5<layer> B<channel> 62 <control to change> where channel can be 0 or 1 (0=midi channel 1 1=midi channel 2) and layer can be 0 through 5.   So to start the conversation with a hex layer on zone 1 channel 1 on layer 3 and say we are going to change the volume on that layer, the midi code is:

 

B0 63 52

B0 62 04 (04 is the hex layer amp volume) parameter

Following that we have to tell it the data entry for the volume change:

 

B0 06 <value 0-127> (06 says we are about to add a value to the identified parameter)

B0 26 00 (some NRPNs may have an LSB value as well.  For this, the px-5s does not but still needs receipt of the code)

When Px-5s sends an NRPN it follows with a NULL RPN.  I'm not sure if it needs to receive it also but here it is for reference anyway:

 

B0 65 7F

B0 64 7F

 

Remember, the 0 after the B indicates which channel to transmit on (0=midi channel 1).  So the whole midi string to set the volume of a hex layer layer 3 on channel 1 to 64 would look like (assuming the NULL RPN has to be included):

 

B0 63 52

B0 62 04

B0 06 40

B0 26 00

B0 65 7F

B0 64 7F

[Bruno888]

Mmm, no, it isnt an hex layer.
Well, i cant do a video right now, but here is my setup:

CASIO CTK481 is set on channel 2.

px-5s
SYSTEM SETTINGS > MIDI
LOCAL CONTROL > ON
HIGH RESO OUT > ON

DEVICE ID > ALL
BASIC CH > 01
MIDI OUT SELECT > KEY
MIDI IN ENABLE > ON
SYNC MODE > MASTER
RX FILTER > ALL OFF BUT PITCH BEND

Now for the zone setting:
 

EDIT >STAGE SETTING > ZONE EDIT (2)

 

-MIXER > ZONE ENABLE ON

 

-CONTROLLER EDIT > ALL ENABLED
 

-MIDI EDIT > EXTERNAL OUT CH > 02
GENERATOR OUT > OFF (in order to play a tone on the privia and a different tone on the CTK)
MIDI OUT > ON
USB OUT > ON

PROG BANK OUT > OFF

 

SLIDER 3 TARGET 1: EXPRESSION
TARGET 2:NO ASSIGN 

[Brad Saucier]

There is your problem.  You turned off gen out.  Besides the keys, that also disables all slider/knob and pedal control over the sound engine. Instead, limit zone key range down to 1 note somewhere off of the 88 keys.  

[Bruno888]

That was it!!
I tried it out and everything worked perfectly. Thank you!