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A List of G1 Questions


CairnsFella

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Edit:- Whilst I have left the post intact, this thread now refers only to the question marked '3' below. I have reposted the other questions into seperate threads per topic.

 

I will write this a little backwards. Up front I will list my questions, and if anyone is kind and able enough to provide a response I will be most grateful.

 

At the end I will give a little background as to why I am here asking these questions.. however that part is not essential so if you have limited time I would be most grateful to focus on the questions.

 

1. Acknowledging - not just for this question, but for all - that few of the many functions of the G1 will be better, in isolation, than dedicated professional hardware that is focussed upon a narrower range of functions, I am still keen to make a comparison to other 'grooveboxes' of the past. Does anyone here own,  or have reasonable experience of things like MC909, RS7000, i.e. the sampling polyphonic .grooveboxes, and if so could you highlight the most significant deficiencies the G1 may have in your experience if one was to try to use the Casio in the same type of way as these old machines. I emphasise the aspect of your experience as I 'hope' I have noted most of the specification type differences, but practical use is a different thing. By all means highlight any major pro's to, though it is the limitations that I am most eager to learn at this stage. I realise the most obvious is size (And this is a consideration) but I am more focussed on function.

 

2, On a related note. Has anyone here done any live/ or performance type sequencing. If so have you found the faders limiting insomuch that you need to switch between two sets of steps (in a 16 beat sequence) to facilitate any type of live parameter edit across a large selection of steps (I specifically avoid stating ALL steps as I realise there is a global fader).

 

3. I really have tried to understand the capabilities of the sampling section of the G1. In actual fact I dont need to understand all elements up front, but I am still unable to gain a clear understanding of chromatic sample mapping. The manual seems to focus more on sample looping and samples in relation to the step sequencer. From what I understand I would be able to upload a sample (or selection of samples) and assign them to keys much the same as any hardware sampler subject to the length, size, polyphony etc limits. To what extent does the keyboard (or software editor) provide for a single sample over several notes (chromatically)? And am I correct in assuming that any capability there is involves the old school "speeding up" and "slowing down" of samples?

 

4. Hex Layers. I know these are a P1 only element and I am 99.9% sure the G1 is a best fit for my needs, but it would be foolish to dismiss that last 0.1 percent without understanding one of the 'main' features of the P1 and one that many many people seem to talk about. I guess that I dont really see what these Hex Layers offer over and above conventional velocity layering. I believe there are additional parameters that can be controlled via hex layers that you would not be able to access otherwise, but then this limitation may only be specific to this keyboard anyway, might'n it. What I am saying is what is the difference between Hex Layers on the Casio, and theoretically Velocity Layers on a different synth that may well offer more control over each layer. I guess I feel I am missing a fundamental point that must exist for this feature to be worthy of it's own 'Name' and such avid discussion.

 

5. Without trying to suggest that the G1 is any more limited than it is, or to understate it's flexibility, do any current users find the limitations in performance parameter tweaking more (or indeed maybe less) restrictive in practice than one might expect. (I mean the likes of filers in poly pcm mode etc)

 

6. Does anyone know of any youtube (or other) video demos using the external oscillator function. I feel I must have seen the majority of G1 centric youtube videos (as now every time I think I have discovered a different one it turns out I have seen it) but if any of those actually demonstrate this, I must have zoned out. I have, for example, seen instruments plugged in (such as the Japanese demonstrator playing a looped live guitar), but not to my knowledge an input source as an oscillator.

 

OK.. I do have other questions, but maybe I should see how I go with these for now. At the very least - if you have got this far - thanks for reading.

 

So, now a little background which may / may not give a bit of context. I re-iterate, this is non essential reading, so no offence if you go no further.

 

I am a very very amateur muso that played (very bad bass guitar) in a couple of non gigging bands many years ago, and back then also got into some electronica and early computer midi sequencing (twelve tone cakewalk at the time). The majority of the gear I have is from many years ago such as my Technics WSA1 and Yamaha A3000. I had quite a few lean years where I did either very nearly nothing or very actually nothing musically, but in recent years after getting together with a local 'jamming' community I have got back into the Bass more. Sadly I am little improved over my early days, but I am enjoying it a great deal.

 

However, as I am now involved in music more regularly, and as much as I have a lot of fun playing the genres of music my friends enjoy (which is varied...... to a point) I miss dabbling in more funk, dance, and generally up tempo material (OK.. we play some things that some of the participants would consider up tempo... but really it's not thumping hands in the air stuff).

 

So I use reaper, my old gear, some VSTi's and such nowadays, but more as backing to practice bass / guitar or to record progress than any composition. 

 

Back in the early day of the grooveboxes I could never justify the cost of such machinery, partly because I had already spent quite a lot on gear - some of which became quickly obsolete (sony minidisc multitrack anyone ?) - and felt that in theory at least, I should be able to 'compose' similar work with the tools I had - which to some degree I could - albeit less spontaneously.

 

And now for the contrived - and not entirely explicable - route by which I come to the G1.

 

My home set up may not be massive, but nor is the room it occupies. In addition to the aforementioned I have a selection of guitars and amps and pedal effects, Some rack gear, a small PA set up, some JBL powered monitors and sub, a few interfaces, mic's and vocal processors and some odds and sods.

 

Having got an itch to do some dance stuff I decided this would be a good excuse to get some hardware with an arpeggiator. Yes, I could program patterns and yes there are software solutions (and perhaps I do have a longtime personal issue with the fact that after purchasing my beloved WSA1, a friend obtained a CS1x, and everytime anyone heard that with the arp they would say "oh.. so this is a proper synthesizer then")

 

So this lead me to looking at controller keyboards with arpeggiators. These suited my available space and would provide a modern controller as added justification to the arp I wanted. In turn this leads me to the the Korg Taktile (good sized keys, compact board, nice control elements), and then on the Triton Taktile variant (because I think... maybe it would be a handy little keyboard to have to take to the jams with onboard sounds, and I can do some synth bass too..... though I am unsure how well that would go down).

 

Ok.. so looking at some youtubes for the Taktile I see a promo video for a kaossilattor rather by accident. It's usually the type of thing I avoid but I must confess it did get my feet tapping, and my wife even commented on it as she was clearly quite taken by the 'first impression'. On further inspection though it didnt really have any features that suggested any degree of longevity for me. Even the Kaosillator Pro which has midi, is monophonic (and by that stage I was seriously considering a controller keyboard PLUS the Kaossilator).

 

So by now I have decided that what I want (in addition to that blasted NEED for an arpeggiator) is something  that I can (try to) create some impromptu grooves with. I am visualising the disapproving stares from my fellow 'jammers' as I rock up with a bit of gear that ostentatiously flaunts LED's and emits raucous bassy beeps and gurgles, and then (in my minds eye) the gradual smiles, nods of approval, and finally general party mayem as they get down to a makeshift groove that brings new dimensions to the monotone sounds of the didgeridoo which has until now been accompanied by a couple of toms, and a few begrudging guitar chords.

 

Back to reality. Yes the above would be nice, but really the whole process eventually reminded me that I never did manage to get anywhere near the old groovebox workflow in hardware, and that's the direction ('a' direction) I wish to take. I did have a few early software interpretations, but despite an IT background I still have a hardware preference.

 

And from there it was a short journey to the XW's. Money is of course an issue - indeed more so than it was back then as it turns out - so having decided the 'type' of gear I wanted it initially looked as though anything 'new' was out of the question. Volcas are coolish, but none are complete enough in isolation for me. Things like electribes are too expensive. A number of modern groovbox type devices are still PC dependant.. and again mostly too expensive. Even the cheaper 'used' options are difficult to consider, because if I wanted to add sampling at a later date there really isnt much around in a cheap, portable 'chromatic' sampler. It seems much more viable to consider the sampling option up front than to try to add it later. (Though this hasnt stopped me looking at the candidates if I took that route e.g. 505's Rm1x's Emu Command stations etc ..... and those used command stations look pretty good value)

 

And.. well... I think my arrival at the XW... and even the G1 should now be, at least reasonably, self evident. My feeling is that it is not really as versatile as some of the dedicated sampling grooveboxes that I previously mentioned. But then I guess this is what I am also trying to establish via my questions, because if it cant really do at least a 'fair' impression of the old school grooveboxes then it would really end up being a fairly large arpeggiating doorstop...  And really, as a unit it is much much bigger than I wanted, though it is light, and I am sure I can make some space. Of course, it's a nice to have.. not a need. But hey, I need to have something for the wife to get me for Christmas.... and I may as well have a perceived need if not really an actual one.

 

And I have searched and searched and searched for more and more info and watched the same youtubes over and over again. It really is quite niche (both XW's, but the G1 in particular). I'd almost suggest there is more info (though not videos) pertaining to my WSA1 than there is the G1. It also strikes me that if someone really really knew the machine inside out and then wrote a completely thorough in depth manual, it would likely be several times the length it is now. Does anyone out there believe they know every single function ??? (even the very informative Mike Martin appears not to claim so in his tutorials).

 

So if you were patient (and MAD enough) to read to here, then you may at least have some additional context for the questions I have asked.... 

 

.... but if it adds nothing. ......

 

 

Sorry  :(

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 The thing with sampling is....the use of it. If the sampler has the capability to give a wide variety of sampling option you can go pretty far.

 That beside the quality of music making depends on how high you're expectation or creation ability are in addition to the sample quality

  in that case its simple buy the  most expensive gear or go with a software sampler. 

 

 If it doesn't matter then the only thing important is the skills in how to use the sampler to mold and forge a sample.

 Its all about sound and the type of sonic blast giving to it being it a loop , one shot or instrumental.

 

 The XW has a 16 bit 42khz sampler inside it can create loops, sampled instruments bas, pads or add new drumkits.

 It has DJ capability when you add it to you're rigs you can do live looping from a total groove. If you like vintage or simple

 fun sound creation its there, If its you're first step in sampling it can be a good starting point for a hardware sampler.

 

 Casio also provide a sample editor for the XW-G1 to set loop points and library management which is also a great addition

 for this board.

 

 So far I myself did lots of musical experimentation which helped me get a better insight in hardware sampling, could have 

 done it with software samplers which has more fidelity but I chose for this option and have not regret it since plus the more

 sampling gear the better for me.

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XW Addict.

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

I tried to be reasonably specific with my questions, although perhaps my 'non professional' standpoint doesn't give that impression.

 

I am used to hardware sampling through my old Yamaha A3000. I know the rather mixed perception of that sampler, however I equally know that much of the negativity towards it was from an interface and workflow perspective rather than a capability one. As I had no experience of the Emu's and Akai's of the day I had no comparison so didnt suffer any associated baggage.

 

Of course I can still use the A3K in association with the XW ... BUT I am keen to explore the limits of the G1 as a standalone instrument. And more specifically as a spontaneous creative tool.

 

Although I believe software samplers are fantastic, I also believe - at least in my case - you cant be an expert in everything, and I want to stick primarily with hardware as it suits both my skills and needs more fully.

 

So yes, a number of my questions do pertain to the performance elements of the G1, which of course would encompass the loops, drums and sequencing etc, but my specific uncertainties regarding the sampler (i.e. my question 3) are with regard to the creation of chromatic patches.

 

I am most grateful for your insights, and for taking time to respond.

 

I wonder, however, if for clarity I should split my questions into separate posts?

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Ill try XW-Addict.

 

If it still makes no sense, please dont feel obligated to respond. And just to reiterate, this is in respect to point 3 in my original post. Points 1, 2, 4, 5, and 6 are separate.

 

What I am trying to say is I have read little about users mapping multisamples across the keyboard to be used melodically. A very basic example would be me recording a few notes of my bass guitar at spaced intervals, and playing these back polyphonically with the G1 over several octaves. It is the facilitation, simplicity / complexity, and standard of results of this particular type of process that I am unable to find significant information about. (I use the bass as an example BUT this is an example only, so I do not mean to focus on any particularities of individual instrument ranges or sonic characteristics, but how the whole process is handled by the G1 itself.)

 

This would be distinct from single hits (like drums) or whole phrases (such as a guitar riff, or a drum loop from a sample cd) which are elements that I am not questioning in this case.

 

Does this help?

 

PS. I am just editing this post to refer to:-

 

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/7406-oh-i-wish-for-this-sample-feature/

 

Which was a thread that you started XW-Addict. In that thread you essentially highlight a similar area, but that topic is more about what cannot be done rather than what is actually achievable. In other words, I am aware of that Roland technology (and that the Casio doesnt have similar). On the Roland - using my bass guitar example - I would be confident that even if I were to sample one note I would be able to map it across the keyboard and retain to an extent the character of the original sample over the keyboard range.

 

Given the fact that the Casio does not do this (and recognizing that I am repeating myself a bit now - sorry) it is how well / how easy the Casio handles the process of mapping tonal samples across the keyboard within it's own limitations that I would like to know.

 

The opposite extreme example would be a keyboard a friend had when I was a kid (well... a teen anyway). It was a yamaha or casio toy type thing, and you could only sample really short phrases through the in built mic, which generally meant he ended up playing belches and burps up and down the keyboard. In those days even the original burp was barely recognizable, let alone the compressed or stretched variants either side.

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Sampling:  See my answers in these sampling question threads. At one point or another, I have covered nearly everything there is to know about G1 sampling.  It's a lot to read, so settle in.  If you have any more questions, let me know.  

 

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/6902-advanced-sampling-questions/

 

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/5311-could-someone-help-answer-a-few-of-my-g1-questions/#entry12575

 

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/5312-sample-looper-question/

 

One of the multi sampled instrument tones I made for the G1: 

 

https://soundcloud.com/bradmz/toy-piano-demo-for-the-xw-g1

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What I am trying to say is I have read little about users mapping multisamples across the keyboard to be used melodically. A very basic example would be me recording a few notes of my bass guitar at spaced intervals, and playing these back polyphonically with the G1 over several octaves. It is the facilitation, simplicity / complexity, and standard of results of this particular type of process that I am unable to find significant information about. (I use the bass as an example BUT this is an example only, so I do not mean to focus on any particularities of individual instrument ranges or sonic characteristics, but how the whole process is handled by the G1 itself.)

 

The G1 can map multiple samples over its five keyboard "Zones". You can can record five samples of your bass (or any instrument) by playing "C" at octave intervals on it, then have each corresponding sample mapped to the equivalent "C" key in each of the G1's zones. That way, each "C" key on the G1 will play the sample exactly as it would sound if you played the same "C" on your bass guitar. The other notes in each octave range (Zone) would play the sample at a faster speed to get the correct pitch, but as it's only doing this over an octave you won't lose much of the tonal quality compared with the original sampled instrument.

 

I did this when I sampled my CZ101's string sound into my G1. The result was impressive, as I had the exact some big sound as I had on the CZ101, (and of course polyphonically). Better still, I could also route the sampled sound through the solo synth filter to a get paraphonic filter sweeps. 

 

 

The opposite extreme example would be a keyboard a friend had when I was a kid (well... a teen anyway). It was a yamaha or casio toy type thing, and you could only sample really short phrases through the in built mic, which generally meant he ended up playing belches and burps up and down the keyboard. In those days even the original burp was barely recognizable, let alone the compressed or stretched variants either side.

 

 

The Casio SK1 was most probably the keyboard your friend had as a kid. I believe it was compulsory for every SK1 owner to sample a burp whenever the SK1 was being demonstrated!

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Thank you for the answers guys,

 

BradMZ. I had not seen the sound cloud clip you had posted so thanks for that. The other threads you refer to I had read, but the problem with those (and I use the word problem in it's  least negative context) is that they contain - necessarily I guess - terms that are either XW specific or 'may' have particular skews to their meaning when referring to the XW's. e.g. user tones, performance mode, and zones.

 

This meant that whilst I was able to make assumptions regarding the overall explanations, I was never that sure. So whilst you guys may feel like you are repeating yourselves I can assure you that your additional summaries provided have helped clarify the situation for me.

 

So Chas, BradMZ, and XWAddict....... much appreciated to you all.

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To clarify for newcomers, this is in reference to user wave tones.  A single user wave tone can have up to 5 "splits" (samples).  "Zones" refer to performance mode in Casio lingo. 

 

I've been using Casios and XW's for so long now, I only speak "Casio"!  :D

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Let me know if there is any objection (I will wait a while and see) but as this thread has focused upon the sampling questions, I may 'break out' the other questions in to individual threads. I think otherwise the remaining questions may get a little lost?

 

I think that should be fine, as specific questions do require a specific answer. Plus it makes it easy to find answers to specific queries when searching the forum, plus it also makes it easier for Gary (aka Happy Rat) to add threads to the guides  :)

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