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Playing General Midi files from older soft ware on PX-360


Bob Stiffler
Go to solution Solved by Mike Martin,

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Hi Bob and welcome to the Casio Forums. I am surprised to hear this problem. The PX-360 conforms to GM MIDI Standards and should play back those files no problem. Does it happen to every song? And what happens when you play?  If you can post more details and even an audio recording it will help us figure out what's going on. 

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Scott:

 

The Px-360 fails repeatedly on the 3 or 4 midi files I played with to day.   I have attached an old midi file I have generated.  If you open this file in a notation program you will see strings, guitar, piano etc plus a drum line,  There are notes on the drum line that are sent as channel 10 in the midi stream,  By definition GM channel 10 converts these notes into percussion instruments i.e. bass drum. snare drum, cymbals etc.  .  My Px-360 plays the the musical pitch of the notes that were written.  I should hear percussion sounds instead.

 

Consider the following.  When I play the score everything is ok but channel 10, is screwed up.   However, if I power the  Px-350 off, and then turn it back on,  while the score continues to play, the PX-360 will play the channel 10 drum line properly till the end of the song.  If I play the song again, the PX-350 will again screw up the channel 10 drum line.

 

I think some engineer at Casio goofed.   I am a retired  PE Electrical Engineer and now a Duffer Keyboard player

Bob Stiffler

DrinkingFmSauceJammerArr1.mid

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I loaded the file you provided into my MZ-2000 song sequencer and also played it from the thumb drive on my PX-5s.  Both keyboards played it correctly.  

 

Try placing the files on a thumb drive and play them directly on the PX-360, not via midi from your computer.  This will tell you if the file itself is correct.  If it plays correctly there, the notation software configuration needs examining.  

 

Are you attempting to play along with file playback?  

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Scott

 

I have a PX-5s.  I plug my PX-5s into my computer (Win 8, Hp I7 processor) and the PX-5s plays the file correctly.  I have put this file on a thumb drive and plugged the thumb drive into the Px-360.  I have not been able to make the PK-360 find or play the midi file on the thumb drive. ( More study required).  Notation soft ware probably ok.  I've been a Finale user for the last 20 years.

I really would like some one to open this file in Finale, Sonar or Band in a Box and let me know if their Px-360 plays the file properly.

 

Bob Stiffler

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I leave you guys alone for 10 seconds and this happens.    :huh:   SMF stands for "Standard Midi File"   ".mid" files are SMF files.   

 

http://www.midi.org/aboutmidi/tut_midifiles.php

 

 

 

Bob,

1) Take the ".mid" files and place them on the thumb drive in the MUSICDAT folder. Insert into PX-360.  

 

2) On the menu screen of the PX-360, tap midi recorder

3) Tap on the song title and choose media. You should see the songs in the list. Tap on one to play.

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I leave you guys alone for 10 seconds and this happens.    :huh:   SMF stands for "Standard Midi File"   ".mid" files are SMF files.   

 

http://www.midi.org/aboutmidi/tut_midifiles.php

 

 

 

Bob,

1) Take the ".mid" files and place them on the thumb drive in the MUSICDAT folder. Insert into PX-360.  

 

2) On the menu screen of the PX-360, tap midi recorder

3) Tap on the song title and choose media. You should see the songs in the list. Tap on one to play.

 

 

Yes but .smf is also an extension for MIDI files just like .MID. I was trying to troubleshoot this by going by what the manual said. But either way - yes the file needs to go into the MUSICDAT folder for the PX-360 to see it.   

I think the problem you are having playing the files directly from the computer has to do with either the registrations on the instruments or some file header information is not being transmitted properly to the 360. It could also have something to do with the fact the PX-360's percussion section is handled differently than the PX-5S. If you want to play the files directly from the computer you will probably either need to set up a custom registration or edit the MIDI files in some way to make it work.   

 

I think once you get the files playing from the flash drive that will be the way to go. You should be able to fit a ton of MIDI files on one flash drive so there's really no need to play them from the computer. 

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Scott, BradMz:

 

I  followed BradMZ's instructions and was able to get the PX-360 to play the midi file from the flash drive.  Unfortunately the percussion line  (Channel 10) is still screwed up.  Other channels seem ok..  If you look at the mixer menu and have it on port C, you can see the voices which are assigned to which midi channel.  Channel 10 should say "Standard Set".  It does not.  It says  GM Piano.  

 

Either this PX-360 is broken, or I do not have something set properly in the keyboard, or Casio has screwed the midi interface on this machine.   

 

I have been thru 5 or 6 keyboards over the years.  The later Casio keyboards are the only keyboards that I have had midi problems.

 

Bob Stiffler

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I think I see the issue.  If the files are older or generated with older software, they may be sending only program changes and no bank select commands.  The basic General Midi standard does not have banks.   The PX-360 is more advanced than basic General Midi.  It is actually GM Level 2.  Selecting drum kits for GM2 requires a bank select command in addition to program change.  Without a bank select command, program change 0 calls up GM Piano, which is in bank 0.  Drums are in bank 120.    

 

You could use the mixer to manually change the tone from piano to drums.  In order to have the .mid file call up drums correctly on it's own, it will need bank select added to it.  

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BradMZ

 

I was able to go to the Mixer Screen. select channel 10, change if from "piano" to "drums", then select "standard Set" on the drum instrument menu.   Doing this made the file play correctly.

However, when I return to mm,1 (rewind) channel 10 plays incorrectly.

 

 

I have not been able to enter "Program 0" Bank 120 in my Finale 2014D notation program.

 

If your analysis is correct, (it seems reasonably so)  then the PX-360 is unable to play the millions of midi files that exist today without modifying each of those files which contain a channel 10  percussion line.

 

Maybe the  Engineers work for the 'Midi Manufactures Association" who updated a GM spec. that is not backwards compatible with previous GM specifications.

 

Bob Stiffler

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BradMZ    Scott

 

MY PROBLEM SOLVED..........BradMZ',s mention of GM2 got me searching around Finale 2014D and I found Finale  has made provisions for "Standard Kit"  GM2.  One key stroke in Finale's Score Manager's menu and problem is solved for 99% of my work. 

 

Thanks for the help.

 

Bob Stiffler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

d

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This is also something that must be dealt with for the older PX350.

As Brad has already described, the only way to get any of the Casio tones to play with software outside of the GM stock sounds is to send the correct bank change messages along with program change. All tones will always revert to only the GM tones unless this is done. Particularly important since most of the more well-programmed pianos and other tones at least with the PX350 fall outside the GM bank changes. I only figured this out after looking at midi messages being sent with midi-ox. There are several posts here about this but in regards to the 350. Sounds like the 360 is following the same midi map.

I always have to manually set bank changes in sequencer software to use the additional pianos, organs and other tones since many of the GM standard tones are not always the best of the bunch again with the PX350. Maybe the 360 is a bit better in that regard.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • Solution

The issue is the lack of a Bank Change in the MIDI file on Track 10 - MIDI Channel 10.   The PX-360 allows for ANY sound not just drums to be on channel 10.   If the MIDI file does not have a bank change control then you may not get the proper sound on channel 10.  

 

From the GM Standard:

Drum bank is accessed by setting cc#0 (Bank Select MSB) to 120 and cc#32 (Bank Select LSB) to 0 and PC (Program Change) to select drum kit.

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  • 1 year later...

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