ConfusedRedditor16 Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 17 hours ago, Just Alex said: Completed drum remap pattern from standard Yamaha's "Dance kit Tyros" to Casio's "Dance kit 1", new styles are coming soon Wow! Really excited haha 1 Quote
vbdx66 Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 15 hours ago, Just Alex said: And for the people hoping, that automatic style converter will work some day. Let me tell you truth - it will work, if we'll have very intelligent AI used for this, like one used for video colorization and so on (and still it makes errors). This is port of original Yamaha TechnoPolis style (First introduced with PSR-2000 in year 2000). So what was done. (It took me approximately 4 hours of hard labor) 1. Drum patches were remapped. (This is easy, any software can do, if someone writes such one, so far, only I did as I know) 2. Patch numbers were changed, to more closer sounding ones, than default conversion. (Human experience required) 3. Pitch shifted for 3 different tracks, for some up, for some, down. (For better hearing experience). 4. Velocity and filter resonance effects were re-recorded, so style SOUNDS as close to original, as possible. And this check was done by ear, by listening to converted style and original one, played on original hardware together. So I'm in serious doubts, whenever we'll have all this done by AI, with required precision and result similarity I remember, members of AQUA (band) were once interviewed on MTV, and their lead singer said, you know, most people believe, that pop and dance music is just a click of a button, but it is not. So true.... technopolis2.mp3 550.61 kB · 6 downloads Hi @Just Alex this sounds really great. Are you intending to release the style file as well? Thanks. Quote
vbdx66 Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 On 2/20/2021 at 9:11 AM, Just Alex said: Ok here they are. I had to strip down drum tracks a bit, but tried to maintain original sounding as much as possible. There are two files, both have same intro and endings (major) but Drdance has Main A/C and Mrdance has Main B/D If someone can join these two into single file on their keyboard and post it back, that would be great. mrdance.ac7 14.77 kB · 7 downloads drdance.ac7 12.77 kB · 7 downloads Hi @Just Alex I just tried out both files on my CT-X800. They sound good. I have a few comments: - If I have only one Intro, I’d rather choose the Minor intro. I tried out both files with the Major Intro but I noticed that I tend to use this style more in minor mode (it goes better with this type of New-Age, Trance music). By the way, even if you put only one Intro into the style,file, I think that there is a way to program the Intro - even if there is only one - to switchautomaticslly its chord progression to minor chords even if the roots of the chords remain the same. @Chandler Holloway Could you please tell me whether I’m correct in this assumption? - On the CT-X800, the style volume is way too low if you want to solo on the style while playing chords in the “FullRange” mode, even when the accompaniment volume is put at its maximum value of 255. It would be nice to make the whole style louder. - To mimics the dynamic reverb of the original Yamaha style, you could envisage placing the various voices of the style in different places of the stereo space (panning) from extreme left to extreme right. You could then move the voices from left to right or, conversely, from right to left, depending on which of the variations will be chosen. This would make the style spacially more dynamic. - IMHO the style would benefit of a heavier global reverb and maybe some twirling effect, I don't know whether it is possible to tweak the rhythm effects directly on the CT-X3000/5000? Maybe a Flanger or a Rotary speaker would be nice. - Since the style comes divided into two files anyway, for CT-X700/800 users, it could be convenient to have the style files in the following fashion: First file: Intro 1, Main A, Fill A to B, Main B, Fill A to C, Ending 1. Second file : Intro 2, Main D, Fill D to A, Main C, Fill C to D, Ending 2. This is because CT-X700/800 users will need to use reg memories to access all 4 variations. If you play the first file which will e.g. be located in memory slot 1, you will play Main A, then Fill A to B, then Main B. You will then move to memory slot 2, but the rhythm will be set to Var 2 at that time, so it makes sense that you will want to have Main C in Var 2 for the second file. I don’t know whether this is clear...? Thanks again for the work you’ve already put into this 😊 looking forward to the next step. Regards, Vinciane Quote
Just Alex Posted February 24, 2021 Author Posted February 24, 2021 Yes, there are some minor adjustments need to be made to this style (there are two odd notes at the ending, barely noticeable, can be heard in above file at 0:28 but will fix them anyways). Also, since I have one channel unused, thinking about adding another strings layer, playing major or minor chord - for better overall texture. Regarding the minor and major intro. I meant totally different thing, and most people do not understand it properly. Of course, any keyboard can switch for intro between major and minor. but on Yamaha, it is possible to program intro and ending in a way, that TOTALLY DIFFERENT melody will play, when you either press minor or major chords for intro/ending. Casio does not have this feature. Quote
Just Alex Posted February 24, 2021 Author Posted February 24, 2021 Realtime panning is not supported in Casio .AC7 styles unfortunately. I will rework that DreamDance into better variant, but can't promise anything related to exact date Style volumes are set as they're on Yamaha, and instead of just upping the style volume, you can go to edit style and adjust volumes as needed. 1 Quote
Just Alex Posted February 24, 2021 Author Posted February 24, 2021 Originally, these additional drums on Yamaha use DSP - Flanger effect, to create nice panning. It is technically possible to do same on casio, but for this, I have to use custom tone, which you'll have to load along with the style. As far as I know, we can't control DSP from the style file directly.... Quote
vbdx66 Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Just Alex said: Yes, there are some minor adjustments need to be made to this style (there are two odd notes at the ending, barely noticeable, can be heard in above file at 0:28 but will fix them anyways). Also, since I have one channel unused, thinking about adding another strings layer, playing major or minor chord - for better overall texture. Regarding the minor and major intro. I meant totally different thing, and most people do not understand it properly. Of course, any keyboard can switch for intro between major and minor. but on Yamaha, it is possible to program intro and ending in a way, that TOTALLY DIFFERENT melody will play, when you either press minor or major chords for intro/ending. Casio does not have this feature. Hi Alex I think I understood correctly. What I mean is that the Intro you used doesn’t feel appropriate in minor, because the major chords don’t seem to switch to minor when a minor chord (e. g. Amin) is pressed when triggering the intro. So it is not really posssible to use the intro when playing a minor tune using this style. Quote
Just Alex Posted February 24, 2021 Author Posted February 24, 2021 Yes, I have set it to "intro-no-change" because, when keyboard tries to transpose it to minor, it sounds weird, because not everything can be transposed automatically. This is why Yamaha uses separate melodies (parts) for major and minor intro/endings. I can unlock it and make keyboard change it to minor when needed, but it will sound strange I'll do that after I arrive home.... Quote
vbdx66 Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, Just Alex said: Realtime panning is not supported in Casio .AC7 styles unfortunately. I will rework that DreamDance into better variant, but can't promise anything related to exact date Style volumes are set as they're on Yamaha, and instead of just upping the style volume, you can go to edit style and adjust volumes as needed. Hi I can’t do that unfortunately because there is no Mixer on the CT-X800. The onboard editing of styles is impossible and would require external software. But the global volume of the style is very low as compared with the CT-X800 internal styles anyway. As for panning, I know that it cannot change while a rhythm variation is currently being played. What I mean is that you could maybe try to use different plannings in the 4 variations or in the fills, this would add some movement illusion to the style when switching from one variation to another. This is why I suggested adding an effect if the onboard rhythm editor allows this in the CT-X3000/5000. Adding a rotary speaker effect or a flanger could give some movement to the style voices, if this is technically feasible with the onboard rhythm editor, of course. Edited February 24, 2021 by vbdx66 Typos Quote
vbdx66 Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, Just Alex said: Yes, I have set it to "intro-no-change" because, when keyboard tries to transpose it to minor, it sounds weird, because not everything can be transposed automatically. This is why Yamaha uses separate melodies (parts) for major and minor intro/endings. I can unlock it and make keyboard change it to minor when needed, but it will sound strange I'll do that after I arrive home.... This is why I suggested using a major intro for the first style file and a minor intro for the second style file. Since you have two files anyway it should be OK to have two different Intros for the two files. Quote
vbdx66 Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Just Alex said: Originally, these additional drums on Yamaha use DSP - Flanger effect, to create nice panning. It is technically possible to do same on casio, but for this, I have to use custom tone, which you'll have to load along with the style. As far as I know, we can't control DSP from the style file directly.... Too bad. Maybe @Chandler Holloway could help us in this? I am frustrated because globally, I find that the CT-X keyboards have great sounds, but Yamaha styles are more flexible and there are much more software tools available to tweak them. Too bad. @Just Alex Unfortunately the custom tone option won’t work because you cannot use the CT-X3000/5000 custom tones on the CT-X700/800 where tone editing is pretty much limited to layering and adding some reverb or delay, chorus or flanger. Yes I know I should buy the CTX-3000 but I don’t have the budget right now, so I’ll have to make do with the CT-X800. But I am going to check the data list for the CT-X800. Maybe some usable preset sound contains a inbuilt DSP with the required twirling effect... This whole process is great fun anyway 🙃 Quote
Just Alex Posted February 24, 2021 Author Posted February 24, 2021 Actually, X3000/X5000 do support styles with different intros for major and minor, just we don't have converter yet (but it is on the way as I know). So shortly these 2 styles will become 1. Quote
vbdx66 Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, Just Alex said: Actually, X3000/X5000 do support styles with different intros for major and minor, just we don't have converter yet (but it is on the way as I know). So shortly these 2 styles will become 1. Actually for CT-X700/800 owners it would be great if you kept the two-files version as well, this would enable us to access all 4 variations through using two different reg memory slots for both 2-variations files. Quote
Just Alex Posted February 24, 2021 Author Posted February 24, 2021 Download and try calipso1.ac7, posted on previous page here. Try it with X700. Does it play different melody for intro for major and minor? Quote
vbdx66 Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 I just found your message. I'll try it out later this evening because here it is 4 pm and I want to get out before the curfew for the pandemic at 6 pm 😷 Quote
Chandler Holloway Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 8 hours ago, vbdx66 said: By the way, even if you put only one Intro into the style,file, I think that there is a way to program the Intro - even if there is only one - to switchautomaticslly its chord progression to minor chords even if the roots of the chords remain the same. @Chandler Holloway Could you please tell me whether I’m correct in this assumption? You would use the Chord table parameter to influence this; although as long as you trigger the Intro with a minor chord (synchro start being on will help), it will automatically play the minor version of the intro. 6 hours ago, vbdx66 said: Too bad. Maybe @Chandler Holloway could help us in this? Editing DSP effects "remotely" (i.e. not using the DSP Edit features on the CT-X3000 and CT-X5000 but rather embedding DSP edits in a premade file, like .MID or .AC7) requires a string of complex sysex commands, at least I think it does. Frankly I don't even know how programming DSP over sysex works; I just know that it's possible because it's mentioned briefly in the MIDI implementation manual and @mrmr9494's explorations of it over on the .ac7 maker github page (he describes creating a custom DSP chain in Example 2, scroll down to see the "read me" section). 6 hours ago, vbdx66 said: Actually for CT-X700/800 owners it would be great if you kept the two-files version as well, this would enable us to access all 4 variations through using two different reg memory slots for both 2-variations files. The "2-in-1" behavior of these .AC7 files is an intended feature of the Rhythm file format. There shouldn't be any need to have a separate version of the file, because both the major and minor intro versions are already "baked in" to the master file. You can guarantee the minor version always play if you trigger Rhythm playback to start with a minor chord. It's just that there's no way to make a 2-in-1 intro Rhythm "normally", through the onboard Rhythm Editor controls or the official Casio software. Thankfully we have a very dedicated community who is doing great work to create independent software workarounds for these limitations! I do my best to help out with my knowledge where I can, even if I'm useless when it comes to programming, haha. But I'm always happy to help test and offer feedback, so I've been doing as much of that as I can around here when I'm not too busy. 1 Quote
Just Alex Posted February 24, 2021 Author Posted February 24, 2021 Well here it is. TechnoPolis style from Yamaha PSR-2000, with properly ported drum patches, filter effects and additional strings layer. Intro, Main A, Fill A, Main B, Fill B, Ending. Can be played either minor or major. It actually has 2 intros and 2 endings and 4 variations, but due to current converter limitations, I can't include them in one AC7 file. Hope, shortly this issue will be fixed Why I like this style? Because it's intro appears to be based on 60s Georgian movie soundtrack TechnoPolis2K1.ac7 Quote
vbdx66 Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 7 hours ago, Just Alex said: Download and try calipso1.ac7, posted on previous page here. Try it with X700. Does it play different melody for intro for major and minor? Indeed it does, both Intro and Ending are completely different melodies when I play a Major or a minor chord on the CT-X700/800. Whereas when I try Mr. Dance or Dr. Dance and I play a minor chord Intro and Ending are always Major and feel wrong. Major chords are fine. Quote
vbdx66 Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Just Alex said: Well here it is. TechnoPolis style from Yamaha PSR-2000, with properly ported drum patches, filter effects and additional strings layer. Intro, Main A, Fill A, Main B, Fill B, Ending. Can be played either minor or major. It actually has 2 intros and 2 endings and 4 variations, but due to current converter limitations, I can't include them in one AC7 file. Hope, shortly this issue will be fixed Why I like this style? Because it's intro appears to be based on 60s Georgian movie soundtrack TechnoPolis2K1.ac7 10.32 kB · 3 downloads Nice. Here I cannot figure out what the Intro and Ending are doing when playing minor chords... Quote
vbdx66 Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Chandler Holloway said: You would use the Chord table parameter to influence this; although as long as you trigger the Intro with a minor chord (synchro start being on will help), it will automatically play the minor version of the intro. Yes; excepted that I am speaking of @Just Alexcustom styles, which have only one intro 2 hours ago, Chandler Holloway said: Editing DSP effects "remotely" (i.e. not using the DSP Edit features on the CT-X3000 and CT-X5000 but rather embedding DSP edits in a premade file, like .MID or .AC7) requires a string of complex sysex commands, at least I think it does. Frankly I don't even know how programming DSP over sysex works; I just know that it's possible because it's mentioned briefly in the MIDI implementation manual and @mrmr9494's explorations of it over on the .ac7 maker github page (he describes creating a custom DSP chain in Example 2, scroll down to see the "read me" section). The "2-in-1" behavior of these .AC7 files is an intended feature of the Rhythm file format. There shouldn't be any need to have a separate version of the file, because both the major and minor intro versions are already "baked in" to the master file. You can guarantee the minor version always play if you trigger Rhythm playback to start with a minor chord. Well @Chandler HollowayHere, I am not speaking about the two intros, but rather about the fact that having two separate files, each with two different variations, aka MAin A and B in the first file and Main C and D in the second file, will give access to all 4 variations of a given rhythm to CT-X700/800 users, who have only acces to two variations at a time. 2 hours ago, Chandler Holloway said: It's just that there's no way to make a 2-in-1 intro Rhythm "normally", through the onboard Rhythm Editor controls or the official Casio software. Thankfully we have a very dedicated community who is doing great work to create independent software workarounds for these limitations! I do my best to help out with my knowledge where I can, even if I'm useless when it comes to programming, haha. But I'm always happy to help test and offer feedback, so I've been doing as much of that as I can around here when I'm not too busy. Quote
vbdx66 Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 @Just AlexSo eventually when you have more time, will you be able to program for instance Mr. Dance with a Major intro and Dr. Dance with a minor intro (or the reverse)? I also quite like the idea of using the unused track for strings or a dreamy pad or whatever. Quote
Chandler Holloway Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 1 hour ago, vbdx66 said: Here, I am not speaking about the two intros, but rather about the fact that having two separate files, each with two different variations, aka MAin A and B in the first file and Main C and D in the second file, will give access to all 4 variations of a given rhythm to CT-X700/800 users, who have only acces to two variations at a time. You can create your own 2-variation split versions of any 4-variation source Rhythm with the most recent version of ReStyle. 1 Quote
Just Alex Posted February 25, 2021 Author Posted February 25, 2021 The issue is that we don't have a tool on PC, to create 4 variation style yet, so no use of splitter Yes I will make dreamdance when I'll have time. Regarding the TechnoPolis, the main melody sounds the same in minor or major, because it is atonal (maybe not proper term), however, string paddings (channel 13) change to major or minor according to what you play, both for intro and ending. 2 Quote
Just Alex Posted February 25, 2021 Author Posted February 25, 2021 Here is how dreamdance style intros and ending sound. It has 4 intros and 4 endings. This file starts with major Intro B, Intro C, Ending B, Ending C. And then the same - but in minor. So let's vote, who wants which part dreamsdancer.mp3 Quote
Just Alex Posted February 25, 2021 Author Posted February 25, 2021 Another interesting issue are Yamaha styles with MegaVoices - naturally sounding instrument voices, with all life-like sound changes. These are achieved via specific tones, and sadly, can't be ported to Casio.... Here is an example - "Twist and Shout" by the Beatles - sounds quite flat, because all guitar magic had to go.... twistandshout.ac7 Quote
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