Fine Tune .wav

[Gabriel Bossa]

Hello!

 

I'm using an organ sampleset from the internet, but some .wav files are not perfectly tuned, and i need to fine tune in cents, with the Casio Sample Manager i can do that, but only with integer numbers.

I need to adjust the tune in cents with decimals.

 

Example: -12.42344 cents

 

Is there any software that can do that?

 

I've found some that can change the pitch by frequency, but not in cents.

[Brad Saucier]

Use a guitar tuner application on your phone.  

[Gabriel Bossa]

I think I coulnd't explain my self.

 

I alredy have the exact number in cents that I need to adjust for each of the .wav files.

The sampleset have that information in the documentation.

 

But the adjustment from this documentation is in decimals. The Casio Sample manager only allow to change to fine tune in integers.

So I'm looking for an external software to make that adjustment.

 

I need to somehow change the pitch of the wav files and save as a new .wav file.

 

With my phone I don't think I can do that.

 

If I can, what application do you suggest?

[Jokeyman123]

I would have to check, no time right now. audacity might have that ability. Goldwave is another wav editor I use, again not sure if it can calculate to that fine a degree. I know I can do that with my sampling boards-but you'd need a Korg M3 or an Alesis Fusion to tune samples with that degree of accuracy. I don't know of Any wav editor that can go out to 4-5 decimal places.

[Jokeyman123]

Audacity will only change a wavfile by 1 cent increments with a span of plus or minus 40. Does not go out to anything finer than 1. Why is it necessary to fine tune your wavs to such a small degree? I didn't think the human ear can even hear to that fine a degree of tuning, even with perfect pitch.....

[Gabriel Bossa]

Thanks for the response!

 

For context, i'm using an organ sampleset from Piotr Grabowski, and I have up to 6 layeres of tones (hex layer)

 

For each wav file I need to fine tune as Piotr Grabowski configured for the GrandOrgue/Hawptwerk.

 

There are many notes that the adjust is like 1.5432, or 0.5324.

 

If I round those number it sums up the whole thing and at the end sounds a bit odd.

 

Also, the MZX-500 isn't supporting very well all the samples, some notes just stop playing, or it doesn't load properly.

 

So my ideia it's to optmize my samples and "grouping" 2 or 3 stops of the organ in one wav file, but in order to do that I need to adjust the pitch in another software.

 

To sum up, if it is not possible to adjuste to that level of degree, I need a software that can fine tune in cents, to optmize my new tone.

 

[Jokeyman123]

Interesting-I have this collection of Hauptwerk organ samples as wavs courtesy of jesse, the moderator at the Alesis music group. I have not tried to convert these for the Alesis Fusion-it seems a daunting project, the wavfiles I have comprise 191MB of individual samples. Here is the text file describing what I have.readme2_hauptwerk.txtreadme2_hauptwerk.txtreadme2_hauptwerk.txtreadme2_hauptwerk.txt

 

The difficulty I see is that there are 28 separate folders here- 28 separate collections of files for each note in each individual stop for this organ. So the complete sampled organ would require 191MB of RAM if you load all 28 stops. I can do this with the Fusion, it has sufficient sample RAM (just barely) I imagine if you were loading just one stop-and needed to make the incremental pitch changes....I will check Goldwave and see if this program can go finer than 1 cent increments. but at least Audacity is incrementing in decimals.

 

I have a similar mathematical (well not exactly) problem with Yamaha SY77 tempo changes-I cannot directly enter bpm into a master track-I have to calculate by percentage 2 tempo rates, and set the succeeding tempo change to plus/minus  percentage of the preceding tempo-and the calculation is based upon only the preceding tempo change, not an absolute value based upon the original initial tempo. For example-I have 3 tempo changes I need to embed. Initial tempo is 160, then shifts to 89 and then to 140 and back to 160. But the percentage calculation has to be based upon only the immediately preceding tempo, not the original. I know how to calculate this, but its a messy bit since the SY77 has an even odder way of inputting this value-it only allows for insertion, not deletion or editing! Once I input my value, now I have 2 values if i don't get it perfectly right......!!!! I've posted at the Yamaha Musican's group, so far no help there, probably because no-one can come up with anything that will solve this problem. But that's my problem!

 

Let me know how you manage with this, I may attempt at least a few stops with the Fusion and let you know how it sounds. I do not have a Casio capable of sampling-only the PX560 and XW-P1. why I picked up a Fusion-since the MX-500 is apparently extinct, an unfortunate victim of the (lack of) Casio manufacturing process. I guess they had their reasons. I suspect the pandemic did not help sales.

[Gabriel Bossa]

Sounds like you have an interesting mathematical problem there!

Have you try creating an Excel spreadsheet to calculate it automatic for you? or something similar

 

My main problem right now is that "cutting" of the wav files when playing.

I think it is because i've used stereo files, so i'm gonna try to remake my hex layer with mono files.

 

Also, for each layer I'm using 10 wav files. (C1, E1,G#1,C2,E2,G#2...).

 

I'm gonna keep posting here my questions/updates.

[Jokeyman123]

If you are interested in the collection I have (I do not know the full extent of the wavs you are working with of course) I can post this rather large file collection on Google Drive or similar. I've just converted to folders to the Fusion-and these automatically mapped to apparently pre-defined key ranges, but not all across my 88 keys-I'm thinking each file is mapped across the classic organ 44-key range for a multi-keyboard church organ, I am not familiar with the Hauptwerk in person. Must sound impressive altogether.

[Gabriel Bossa]

Not sure if I understood.

 

Does this file works for MZX-500?

Or is it a folder with wav files to map to the keys in Casio Sample Manager?

 

Either way, I would love to check it!

[Jokeyman123]

These are all wav files-many of them. If the MZ can load and configure wav files-it will work, but depends upon how much internal sample RAM the MZ has. I don't have one, so can't really help there.

 

How familiar are you with sampling technology in general-it is one of the more challenging aspects of sound programming. Each keyboard has it own routines for loading, mapping samples. I can also upload just a few of the individual wav samples from my Hauptwerk collection-to see if these will load into the MZ-each wav represents only one not on the keys, and of course is assigned to specific keys/notes. The usual technique is to create a multisample-an organized collection of wav files correctly mapped across the keyboard, and as you are trying to accomplish, in perfect tune in relation to each other and to your master tuning/pitch table.

[Gabriel Bossa]

I've just started with sampling. I've tried to create a few tones, and it was going well, but when I've added 6 layers for the hex layer, the keyboard wasn't abble to handle it.

 

In this hex layer that I've done, for each layer I have 10 wav files mapped and tuned to the correct keys (I needed to do it manually), so in total 60 wav files.

Each file is stereo and has approximately 8 seconds (I also need do set loop points with a software called "Endless WAV")

 

My next attempt was to try and use mono files and shorter. If that doesn't work, I will try to separate my hex layer in 3 or 4 individually tones, and in this tones I would need to "merge" the wav file in one (that's why I need to tune the files also)

 

I'm also considering changing my Casio MZ-X500 for one of this models of Yamaha: PSR-S650, PSR-SX600, PSR-S670, PSR-770.

Because Yamaha has an official expansion pack for some really good pipe organs.

 

My main goal is to have some good and various pipe organs tones. (I need to be able to choose between the different stops of the organ, or something similar)

[Brad Saucier]

Here are some general guidelines for MZX sample expansion file output.

 

The MZX-500 has 256 MB (128 MB for MZX-300) of sample expansion storage in total.  It is recommended that the tone file being output by the sample manager be no larger than 2.5 MB total.  Each wave file used should be no larger than 1536 KB for stereo, or 768 KB for mono.  Smaller size is always better, more stable, more reliable. 

 

Whenever creating new tones, I suggest first searching through the factory waveform data in the hex layer editor, trying to find useable samples that can be tweaked and combined in new ways to make new sounds.  With a little clever sound design work, it may not be necessary to install new samples after all.  For example, in the PX-5S community, a user created a new pipe organ using factory samples in the hex layer editor.  I'll drop a link below to that.  While the PX-5S file won't load in an MZX product, the discussion about it might be useful inspiration.  

 

 

[Gabriel Bossa]

Thanks Brad!

I've actually found this this post and got sad that it wasn't for the MZX, also the soundcloud link for check how the final tone sounded it is not available.

 

I've tried checking the factory wave files and couldn't create something I liked (I guess I haven't tried hard enough).

 

So I thought it be easier and better quality to use the samples for GrandOrgue/Hawptwerk and adapting it for the MZX.

Could I use my laptop? Yes, but for playing in church, is not the best option.

 

Importing the tones to the keyboard sounds like the best option, more reliable and responsive.

 

I'm gonna give one more try with the factory waves. But anyway, thanks for the tips for sampling, if you have anymore I would love to hear.