RobinsXpressions

Sequencer cutting off the sustained sounds when tracks merged

8 posts in this topic

Hello everyone!

 

I decided to give the Casio WK-6600 Sing sequencer a try and trust me i got too deep into it. I just merged a track(Piano sustained) into another one(also sustained) but when i merged the former into the latter, the sustained voice has been cut off.

 

The sustain pedal i use is Havana WTB-005.

 

Thanks in advance. Have a nice day!

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Robin,

 

Once you merge the tracks, the sequencer has no way of distinguishing which "Note Off" messages belong with which "Note On" messages from the two original tracks, so notes from both tracks (even sustained notes) respond to ANY "Note Off" messages, for that same note (C, D, E, F, G, etc.) occuring in the resulting "merged" track.  For instance, if you merge a staccato Middle C from one track with a sustained Middle C from another track, and the staccato Middle C occurs after the start of the sustained Middle C, the sustained Middle C will respond to the "Note Off" message of the staccato Middle C and be truncated.  "Note Off" messages from other notes (D, E, F, G, etc.) will not affect the sustained Middle C, just a Middle C "Note Off" message, but as you have already discovered, that is enough to upset the apple cart on your merged track.  A sustain pedal merely delays the transmission of a "Note Off" message until the pedal is released, but if an erroneous "Note Off" message from a merged track comes along in the meantime, the sustained note gets cut off, regardless of the position of the pedal.  When you merge MIDI data streams, the streams lose most of their original identity.  I would recommend doing some reading up on how MIDI operates, before trying these types of operations:

 

http://tweakheadz.com/how-to-get-started-with-midi-and-the-difference-between-midi-and-audio-is-explained-along-with-many-other-core-concepts-for-building-a-home-recording-studio/

 

Keep in mind that, in the above discussion, when the author writes about sending MIDI data streams down a MIDI cable, it really makes no difference whether the data stream is sent down a cable to an external device (ie. a sound module) or stays internal within the keyboard and is sent to the keyboard's own sound engine, the operation is exactly the same.  The sequencer makes very little, if any, distinction between the keyboard's own sound module at the other end on an internal circuit board trace or some other manufacturer's sound module at the other end of a MIDI cable.  As far as the sequencer is concerned, they are both "external" devices.  That is, they are both "external" to the sequencer circuit, itself.

 

Best of luck with your WK-6600 !

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I'm all satisfied with your reply tnicoson.

Thanks for the reply:)

Ok firstly I'm happy that it's not a "defect" that i was afraid of.

And secondly I guess I will record the midi without sustain and try to add sustain in the DAW in my laptop itself. Will it work? Since midi is just a set-of-instructions I think it should work.

 

Thanks again.

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Robin

 

Adding sustain after the fact with a DAW will not necessarily resolve your issue.  Any staccato signal on the same note of the same track occurring during an intended sustained note will still truncate the sustained note.  In other words, you would be doing manually with the DAW, the same thing the keyboard's sequencer is already doing inadvertently.  The only way to avoid this, is to keep the tracks separate to begin with.  With 16 tracks available to you, is it really necessary to merge those two tracks?

 

 

 

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On 4/25/2017 at 3:41 AM, tnicoson said:

Robin

 

Adding sustain after the fact with a DAW will not necessarily resolve your issue.  Any staccato signal on the same note of the same track occurring during an intended sustained note will still truncate the sustained note.  In other words, you would be doing manually with the DAW, the same thing the keyboard's sequencer is already doing inadvertently.  The only way to avoid this, is to keep the tracks separate to begin with.  With 16 tracks available to you, is it really necessary to merge those two tracks?

 

 

 

Okay sir, let me tell you. I totally missed that spot. Thanks for solving my problem before it even came into my way! Okay I think I'll have to be a bit careful with the sequencer as I am a beginner.

And the reason for merging the tracks is that I can't hit the perfect notes at the right timing for over a minute. So I just want to play (right hand melody part) for thirty seconds(quantize it), play another 30-second melody on next track (again, quantize it) & merge the tracks :D. Same with LH (arpeggio accompaniment) part. I just wanna keep RH and LH part organized into 2 separate pieces.

Hope you got my point.

I'm afraid I am unable to learn the Measures, gates and note values on the Casio's sequencer.

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Is there any good informative video on understanding Casio's song sequencer ?

Esp. of Casio WK-6600

Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance! 

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What few videos are available on the CTK/WK-6XXX sequencers are really basic - pretty much how to play somerhing and record it the first day you get the keyboard.  They do not go into the depth of what can happen when you start merging tracks and things like that.  Several years ago, Casio's Mike Martin did a fairly indepth video on using the CTK/WK-7XXX's Pattern Sequencer to create a custom Rhythm, but that is an entirely different animal from what you are dealing with.  Right now, you are having problems with sustained notes, but when you start merging tracks with embedded effects and controls, things can turn into a real mess real quick.  Your best course is to come up with a workaround for doing what you want without merging tracks to begin with, and this does not affect just the Casio sequencers.  What you are running into are sequencer facts of life.  Commercially available quality videos covering specific items on specific keyboard models are extremely rare as there is just not that much of a market for them.  You might try doing a search on Amazon for books on in-depth sequencer practices.  There were two or three back in the mid 90's.  With a little luck, maybe there are still a couple of copies lying around somewhere.

 

 

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Hope I am in luck for understanding sequencers, for my mind is flooded with musical ideas ready to be expanded into a piano solo composition. But I just can be friends with the grand staff and the quarter notes and all. (They can't be erased, you see).

 

This is where my need for a sequencer began to grow. Thanks for the guidance, sir. I'll look for ebooks and probably find something useful.

Thanks for all the time, too. 

 

Have a great day.

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