Technics

Thanks for opening this post, Mau Van!

I, for one, was really excited to see the KORG Gadget app coming out and hope that Casio counters, although this would mean to develop their own rather than using tablets to just control hardware synths.

Tablets keep (and will keep) getting better and more powerful, eventually allowing them to have enough strength to be standalone instruments.

I'd envision:

1. apps as Animoog or Nave to become full fledged composition and performance suites allowing you to create sound and record and mix it down
2. Hardware keyboard would be pretty much nothing but a MIDI controller without any engine inside
3. Controllers would gain wireless capability (WIFI or Bluetooth) in addition to class compliant USB MIDI
4. Musicians could choose what keyboard they would like to play on based upon their need
   1. Pick a 88 weighted controller for a piano gig
   2. 2 tier controller for Hammond  or church organ users
   3. 49 key board for a bass or small gigs, etc...
   4. 61 key controller for home studio or day to day use
   5. Microkey controller for commuters
5. Possibilities are endless and I really think there is market for this because the price could eventually come down
6. I would have never dreamt of even owning a Moog and now I have fun with Animoog for the price of a small dinner at Chili's. 
   Does it sound like a Moog? No, but it's darn close..
7. I could day dream all day long about having a full version of Omnisphere, Kontakt, Alchemy or Logic's Sculpture on an iPad :-) I think we are slowly heading there.

Manufacturers could try to have these built-in, but the tablets and their OS are developing so fast that by the time they'd bring something to market, it could already be obsolete.

It won't be long before ARM processors have enough horsepower to be able to handle GB sized samples, making Ivory, Miroslav Philharmonik or Lounge Lizard run on a tablet with enough polyphony to make it stage-worthy.

It is amazing what quality you can get from simple iOS apps, just because they have high quality samples.

So i have i see my Idea using the Tablett as a LCD for Synth are  finding some interessting conversations..i will push it again so my new Idea is givin the Synth also a Modular Software and using the Tablett als a Software Module you can integrate in the Sound Process of the Synth....

 

haha this means if i like my Synth with an 16 Bar Hammond Plugin i load it into my Tablett and via USB it works like a ASIO Plugin interated into my inside software of the Synth..if i like to have more Sound programming i add a FM / Wavetable  plugin...and so on ...

 

 

Yes....crazy maybe @NAMM2020 maybe from KORG but for shure from CASIO

So i have i see my Idea using the Tablett as a LCD for Synth are  finding some interessting conversations..i will push it again so my new Idea is givin the Synth also a Modular Software and using the Tablett als a Software Module you can integrate in the Sound Process of the Synth....

 

haha this means if i like my Synth with an 16 Bar Hammond Plugin i load it into my Tablett and via USB it works like a ASIO Plugin interated into my inside software of the Synth..if i like to have more Sound programming i add a FM / Wavetable  plugin...and so on ...

 

 

Yes....crazy maybe @NAMM2020 maybe from KORG but for shure from CASIO

With all respect, I must disagree and wouldn't look too deep into this searching for secret deals between Apple and Casio.

I believe this has everything to do with Cost vs. Benefit  and ROI strategy by Casio.

Mike Martin has been pretty vocal about this before on this forum and judging from his previous statements, this is how I understand it:

• Why does Casio state that the rubber pad is good for an iPad and never mentions Android or Windows devices?
  • iOS devices are hands down beating other platforms when it comes to high quality virtual instruments and music making apps
  • When you see musicians using tablets, they are "usually" (but now always) iPads
  • There is a reason why you don't see Animoog, Nave, iPolysix, iElectribe, iMS20, etc... on Surface or Android app stores
  • Also one of reasons why I returned my Surface and stuck to iPad
• Why is there no XW app for Android or Windows Mobile?
  • Easy answer: the XW application was built upon Midi Designer framework which exists only on iOS
  • My hunch is that Casio saw the potential in Midi Designer platform and instead of building their own app from the ground up, they leveraged Midi Designer as their foundation, built the front end and were able to bring this to market much faster and cheaper than starting from scratch themselves
  • Using Midi Designer also solved Casio's problem whether to hire an army of mobile developers to build everything themselves
  • I don't mean to side with Casio here, but to be honest, we should be asking the same question from Korg, Waldorf and Moog why their apps are on iOS and not on Surface or Android tablets
  • Apple has had CoreMIDI built into their OS for a very long time, making various APIs available to developers and that's where the other platforms lack
  • MIDI lag was one of the main reasons why I returned my Surface tablet, low quality music apps, or lack thereof, missing plug'n'play functionality

One doesn't really realize how great it is to plug your controller to your tablet directly without messing around with MIDI drivers. That's what Apple did and developers started flocking around their OS. When Android and Windows RT actually implement MIDI without the real time lag they are plagued with today, things will change.

I don't think Casio will make any apps for Android or any other platform except Apple. I suspect that Casio and Apple have some kind of a deal. It is apparent from all the XW's presentations, they always mention how cool is their rubber pad because you can put there your iPad. Which is a little bit weird - Casio, producing affordable but clever things on one side, and Apple well known about their overpriced products. 

For gigging musicians, a large touch sensitive display would probably make some sense, I'd agree.

But even then, as a non-gigging hobbyist musician, my preference would be a Casio with

1. The same small display which lets you to get by to keep it cheap
2. The rubber pad (such as on XW series) moved right in the middle of the board and have a full blown iPad mount
3. Great intuitive iOS app which would cover the entire software capability of the board controls

As we go today, software instruments are far surpassing anything what you can buy in the Casio price range . Nave, Animoog, Polysix or iMS20 are a clear proof that the software can be packaged in a cheap small app. This will probably sound too risky to some live musicians, but it is clearly the way we are going, smart thermostats, smart TVs, smart phones, smart keyboards.....

I know that the iOS apps lack some major polyphony, but as the hardware keeps getting better, so are the apps.

One note about the RAM/ROM.

It is not only about raising the storage of waveform memory. We need to remember that those samples need to be processed in real time, so , if you double the memory and keep multitimbrality, you would need much faster processor to drive this increased throughput, so what I'm getting to is: raising the sample memory is not as cheap as one may think because the whole machine needs to be beefed up.

@ Mihajlo
As long as you get over the unusual fact how the tracks are assigned to midi channels, it makes sense. For XW-G1 manual, look at page E-51. Not sure what page the XW-P1 manual has it on.

Don't forget that this machine can work as a 4 zone midi controller, so first 4 channels are blocked for this purpose

Then you've got 5 & 6 which are multifunction keys on G1 or external midi on P1

Channel 7 is a click track on G1 or external midi input on P1

Sequencer takes the rest of the channels up to 16

CH01 - always ON - solo synth or PCM sounds on G1 or solo synth, or drawbar or hex on P1

CH02 - available only in PERF mode for PCM 

CH03 - available only in PERF mode for PCM

CH04 - available only in PERF mode for PCM

CH05 - multifunction keys

CH06 - multifunction keys

CH07 - click track

Sequencer:

CH08 - Track 1 - DRM1

CH09 - Track 2 - DRM2

CH10 - Track 3 - DRM3

CH11 - Track 4 - DRM4

CH12 - Track 5 - DRM5

CH13 - Track 6 - BASS

CH14 - Track 7 - SOLO1

CH15 - Track 8 - SOLO2

CH16 - Track 9 - CHRD

DITTO about the manual.

Spending 2.5 hours watching these two clinics is better than reading the manual 50 times over.

You are absolutely right about the manual explaining the steps how to do something, but it doesn't explain the reason or purpose of the steps and what you could achieve.

As far as the chains:
They come in handy when you compose your own song and you can program your sequences to play in certain order, such as play pattern 1 twice such as an intro to your song, then jump to pattern 3 and play it once as a fill-in, go back to pattern 2 and play it 10 times as the main part of the song, then jump to pattern 8 and play it twice to end the song - that way you can play on top of this not worrying about pressing the pattern buttons at the right time, messing up or doing it late.

Handy feature when both of your hands are playing piano or something, unfortunately it doesn't let you save the chains when you leave the sequencer, at least I' haven't figured out yet how to save the chains.

Here is a nice touch: you are supposed to be able to chain different patterns from different sequences. So you could pick pattern 4 from a slow tempe sequence, then jump to pattern 2 in a dance fast tempo sequence. Long story short, you are not limited to only 8 patterns from a single sequence in your song when you use chains!

XW-G1 Live Clinic:

XW-P1 Live Clinic

Am i the only one that thinks that those things are not well explained in the manual??

I clearly see that i CAN change a solo part to be on channel1 , but theres no explanation WHY would i do that. Like, for example, it says also that i CAN make a Chain, but i still dont know what i can use it for, or what is Chain's purpose. Can i have also a simple explanation on that??

 

And, yeah. Thank you very much! It seems that is really rare to get simple and fast answers here.

Mike Martin posted an excellent live clinic video on YouTube for XW-G1 where he demonstrates what you are asking for (TB303 sound) and what David described above.
SSEQ behaves the same on XW-P1 and G1, so you can use these instructions on either machine.

Fast-forward to 00h:52m:20s mark for details.

Hello,

 

I downloaded Mike Martin's excellent TB-303 sound, is it possible to play it and record it into the sequencer in real time?

 

Cheers.

I went to the Casio website to download the appendix for XW and was surprised that besides Xw-P1 and Xw-G1 there also was XW-J1!

When did this happen?

Casio Intl site has it already on. Is this available only in Asia market do far? I'm not a DJ, but that machine looks quite interesting.

http://www.casio-intl.com/asia-mea/en/emi/djcontroller/xw-j1/

Sorry Scott, I removed the Grand Piano sample a while back.  I'll re-upload it later today.  I had planned on tweaking it some but never got around to it. 

Thanks, Scott!

When you play your own piano sample, is this polyphonic or is it just mono synth playing a piano wave one note at a time?

I guess I'm not explaining my question correctly. I keep reading the manual over and over and in the sampling section it states that samples can be either played back as a drum tone or a solo synth tone, but it says nothing about how to play them in poly mode as a real piano would be played.

Would you be willing to describe in steps how you managed to load, set up and play this?

Thanks, happyrat!

I've done that and the New Content page shows the forums I have had picked.

But, I'm still puzzled what the Follow This Forum button is for as I seem to be unable to make it active in any way.

My ultimate goal is to pick 3 forums out of this site and receive e-mail notifications on anything what happens on them.

I haven't been able to succeed in that regard.

Thanks for any ideas or thoughts, in advance!

@ Moderators: 

Is there any specific step a user must do to follow a desired forum and get updates on any post in that forum only?

For instance, if I go to XW G1 Specific forum, I see the Follow This Forum Button in the right upper corner of the page, but it is grayed out and not clickable.

There are only a handful of forums I'd like to keep an eye on, but not all and get my inbox swamped.

Any ideas?

I've read the G1 manual pages referring to loading and playing user sample sounds and wanted to ask some questions to get final clarification:

Examples:

• Is it possible load a single Rhodes wave for instance and play it in full polyphony across the whole keyboard?
• Or is the playback limited only to 1 tone per octave, such as for drums?

I'm afraid the manual only describes how to perform specific steps as it relates to loading data etc, but completely lacks any description of what these steps are supposed to accomplish and how they may apply to real life situations.

Typical example is the SPLT mode, it describes the steps in great detail, but purpose and usage are very unclear for a newbie, such as myself.

Woohoo! :-)

Thanks, Scott!
Just what I was looking for.

Hi JK - You can select stereo in the "Channel" setting when you go to record a new loop.. see e-64, e-65 of the manual..
http://support.casio.com/pdf/008/Web_XWG1-E-1B.pdf

I played wight eh G1 at the store using my headphones and noticed a slight change in tone when loop-recording one of the built in pad sounds.

The sound was nice and wide, but after recording it in the looper, it became very narrow, as though it switched into a mono mode.

Is the looper mono only?

I can't find an answer in the user manual.

Mike, 

A few questions:

1. How are you utilizing the iMS20 in this mix? Your song sounds great by the way!
2. I see NAVE on your iPad is depressing keys as you go
   So, you didn't record the pads into the phrase sequencer, but instead recorded it on the chord track of the sequencer to make it play over and over?
3. Does it mean it is plying live and sending MIDI to the iPAD?
   I'm a bit confused how you set this up, because you are running the phrase recorder, but NAVE keeps playing over and over

Are you running both apps via Audiobus?

Here is something I did using the XW-G1 but the same thing could be done using a XW-P1.  Nothing is pre-recorded. This is all done live using the Step Sequencer and the Phrase Recorder.  Also utilizing the iPad apps NAVE and iMS-20.

 

 

There is an answer on this forum where Mike describes it. Try to scour the WX P1 section.

The most important ones:

• P1 has dedicated Hex layer and organ sections, G1 doesn't
• G1 and P1 both have the same solo synth, but G1 can use sliders to modify just about anything on the synth, P1 can't because it uses the matrix to control hex layer and organs instead
• P1 has more PCM sounds than G1- I think P1 piano is a better quality, supposedly - they both sound great to me either way
• P1 has sounds organized in categories quickly accessible by pattern buttons, G1 doesn't, so you have to use the wheel or buttons
• G1 has more drum kits
• G1 and P1 both have the same step sequencer
• G1 and P1 both have the same phrase sequencer
• G1 has a sample looper, P1 doesn't

I'm sure I've missed a whole bunch, but these above stood out for me.

I've spent hours and hours @ SamAsh trying both, didn't buy one (YET), but must say, I really like the "fun" factor. It's dead easy to lay down a track.

Their keyboard is kinda spongy and has no weight to it at all, but it has a good deep travel, is not as good as Novation SL, but is way better than any Axiom I've tried at the store. It is really playable and quick to get used to. I wouldn't mind this as a controller keyboard.

I'm not decided which one to get either:

Here is my dilemma:

1. Like the solo synth programming on G1 via sliders - but this will be negated by the new iOS app Casio is coming out with
2. Like the hex layer on P1 - but iPolysix, iMS20, Nave, Animoog, Sunrizer could be a good substitute
3. Like the Looper feature on G1- awesome to sample loops from Logic

As Mike pointed out somewhere else: that's why you should get both! :-)

Anyone ever thought of doing a video demonstrating exactly what the differences are between the g1 and the p1? I'd really like to see that. I though this step sequencing was more of a g1 feature. I've got a px-5s on the way but am not sure which xw to get as I'm new to synths and don't know what a lot of the features mean.

@john

If you'd try iPad, or even an iPod touch and get Sunrizer, Animoog, you'd be surprised how much horsepower they can crank out.

I don't know anyone who I'd feel comfortable asking for a loaner. I'm old, my friends aren't cool enough for iPads, and the vast majority aren't musicians. The only option locally might be Guitar Center. But it's not an all or nothing decision. I'd start out with the iPad and some apps and test everything myself.

My impression is that I'll never get the quality I'm used to with an iPad and accessories. My use would probably be limited to using it as a mobile computing device, as a MIDI controller, and for generating scratch tracks on the go.

Amen!

You've made your decision already by asking yourself the question... :-)

I'm seriously considering whether it is time to chunk my Windows machine(s) in favor of the iPad.

@radon22

was the unit new, used, refurbished?

your price is the lowest i've heard of so far, even used units are selling for $420+ on ebay.

was this sold directly by amazon or by one of their subcontracted merchants?

Couldn't pass it up. My main workstation of choice has been a Roland Fantom X-7. I love it, but some of my knobs are beginning to get wonky and I'm tired of lugging this beast around a couple of times a week.

I was debating between getting a midi board for use with a laptop/iPad or a a lightweight synth with some basic pad/B3 sounds. Some of Ralph Maten's videos convinced me the XW-P1 would fit either category. At this price, it seems like an easy choice.

I tend to dig deep and build new patches/layers/etc., and believe in sharing. Stay tuned.

@bethold

try to read this discussion topic in this forum:

hope you kept the original box and receipt for the XW.

Hi,

I tried to install the software update (1.10) but unfortunately if failed. It stopped half way. I use a Macbook Air. The XW-P1 won't come up again.

Any suggestions on what to do now?

Tnx,

Berthold

Agree.

I'm not impressed with either product. I do like the KP3+, though.

Korg should take a lesson from car manufacturers. They too started digging into past instead of developing new designs and released old car designs HHR, PT Cruiser, Thunderbird...where are those cars now? Success-wise, micro MS20 is destined to be the opposite of microKORG.

Th VR-09 looks nice but did you also take a look at the King Korg (stupid name ) from Korg? Looks like everyone's getting into the retro VA synth market these days.

$999 is out of my price range, as I'm just a low key hobbyist, but I'd still like to see and hear one live at the Naperville or Villa Park Guitar Center.

I do not think this is overpriced, being a pro keyboard and all. I'm just not in a pro category.

The online piano samples on Soundcloud and YouTube sound lovely.

@ Casio Man

Look at the Sonicstate video where MIke explains it. It looks to be exceedingly flexible. Sounds like you can tweak this keyboard to death and still not exhaust all the possibilities.

• Each of the hex layers gets its own effects. Finally.
  
• Parameters can be tweaked by knobs, sliders or either pedal, that is 12 controllers plus pitch and mod wheels! I won't get more tweakable than this.
  
• Assigning envelopes to the pedal is an icing on the cake.
  
• Mike hints at the very end that there could be more to the USB than just USB and MIDI signals - looks like Casio are looking into bringing a full blown audio interface to the USB port? Assuming it will be 44.1 KHz sampling rate.
  
• Triggering of sounds on key up is a nice touch
  
• 4 arpeggiators? That is crazy! and if they are polyphonic? Then, that's nuts.
  
• What I'm most excited about is ......
  

...Mike mentions in the vid that they are working on a tone library.

If they are talking "Nord style" sound library, then this could be huge!!! Nord has thousands of sounds and you can pretty much download anything you want and set up your sound patches on your keyboard just the way you like them. It is a very clever marketing strategy because it helps to retain your customers who stick with the same brand, even if they get a new board - because of the sounds.

Apple did the same thing with iTunes - the main reason iTunes was created was to promote sales of iPods and to "lock" the users into the ecosystem.

Making a sound library would have the same halo effect for Casio - people could share sounds via vast library and most likely would stick with Casio product from that point onward.

The social media aspect is where Casio is really lacking today...

Imagine an iPad app which would be directly connected to a vast online library of sounds and you could download/upload sounds to/from your Privia via iPad on the fly!?

How do you know it is HIGHLY tweakable?

Very nice, warm sounding pads.

By no means does this begin to tell the whole or even part of the story, but here is a taste of what we'll be showing tomorrow at the NAMM show.

https://soundcloud.c...pro-px-5s-intro

Nice! Thanks for posting it, Mike!

Are you guys planning on doing more live XW webcasts like this?

I have to add one more thing:

I think the rubber pad to put your iPad, iPhone, Mixer, Blofeld or Kaoss Pad is one of the greatest things they have done. No need to worry about an extra rack or stand to put them on.

To control Animoog from XW via USB and then loop its sound from iPad as the 6th oscillator back into XW was a great idea

Another evidence of this being an all-in-one tool.