CDP230r lessons question

[Jax]

hello,

i have a CDP230r... 

also i have mac os... but data manager is not compatible...

any tips as how to upload my own midi files to make lessons?
i tried via sd card, it does recognise but the finger notation is missing...

all suggestions are welcome to accomplish this...

cheers...

thanks !
Jax

ps: if there are sources to learn other songs that the preset it's also welcome

[- T -]

Jax

 

You are correct.  The CDP-230R DOES require the Data Manager 5.0 software, which is not compatible with MAC-OS.  Data Manager 6.1 IS compatible with MAC-OS, but not with the CDP-230R.

 

BUT . . . .

 

You should be able to do just about everything you would do with the Data Manager 5.0 software by saving/loading data to/from the SD Card, and manually porting it between the CDP-230R and your MAC, as you have been doing, but this is most likely NOT the cause of the problem you are having getting the "fingers" in the CDP-230R's display to light.

 

If you have not already done so, see the rigth hand column of Page EN-65 and the left hand column of Page EN-66 of the CDP-230R's manual regarding the "Navigate" Channels, and ensure that your MIDI files have their right and left hand "note" data on MIDI channels that match those of the CDP-230R's "Navigate" Channels.  If they don't, then the "Lessons" features will not function properly, if at all.  While you can always re-assign the CDP-230R's "Navigate" Channels to match the MIDI file, believe me, in the long run, it is best to leave the keyboard's "Navigate" Channels fixed, and edit the MIDI file with DAW/sequencer software to put its right and left hand note data on the proper channels to match the keyboard's "Navigate" Channels.  All too many MIDI files have their note data reversed, with the right hand data on the lower channel and the left hand data on the upper channel, or the data not on adjacent channels.  No amount of "Navigate" Channel re-assignment on the keyboard can accomodate these situations.  So, I recommend just leaving the CDP-230R's "Navigate" Channels on their default channels of 3 (Left) and 4 (Right), and just modify any MIDI files to match.

 

Now, all of that said, some 5 or 6 years ago, there were several of us here, that owned "Lessons" capable keyboards (CDP, LK, WK-2XX, etc),  had a thread going on this very topic, but for some reason, I can not seem to retrieve it.  Different ones of us were having problems getting different aspects of the "Lessons" features to work properly.  For the LK folks, it was primarily  just to get the keys to light properly.  We finally got it down to where we had all but one item working at least to some extent.  That one item was the lighting of the "fingers" on the "hands" in the display window.  The consensus at that time was that the "finger" lighting only worked with the built-in songs, or possibly with the built in songs and songs recorded on the keyboard - particulary recordings that were made while playing along with the built-in songs - that Standard MIDI Files (SMF) lacked the additional data needed to light the "fingers".  It was about this time that I traded my WK-225 in on a WK-7500, which was not a "Lessons" capable keyboard, and had to go at a dead run to accomodate its steep learning curve.  So I quickly lost touch with this topic, and never knew the answer to the above question.  I apologize.  I can not seem to come up with the correct search terms to find this thread, and I no longer have a "Lessons" capable keyboard to experiment on, but hopefully I have given you enough to get you started, so that you can do your own experimenting too see what really works and what does not.

 

Good luck !

 

Regards,

 

- T -

 

 

 

[Jax]

Thanks T. !

 

Thanks for the very complete and detailed explanation!
Do you have recommendations for software that could edit the midi channels ? I use garageband, but can not export midi files... 
thanks a lot for your help!

 

[Jax]

I've experimented now https://musescore.org, but i can not split left and right , it uses the same channels for both ...
if you have a good tool to do that , I'll appreciate it a lot

 

also, https://music.casio.com/e/smf/ are their similar tools for Mac/cdp230 ?

 

[- T -]

I suppose MuseScore or Sibelius or Finale, or any of those would work, after a fashion, but they are actually notation software, not sequencers, and for what you are getting into with your latesr question, you are going to need sequencer software.  Trying to do what I have to offer with notation software would be a bit cumbersome.  You will need the detailed tracks and piano roll screens of a full sequencer.  I spent most of the day trying to find an alternative to Windows' Anvil Studio sequencer that would run under OSx, but have not had any luck, so far.  I picked Anvil Studio because: it's free; it works very well; it's full featured, but still comparatively simple, so it has a short learning curve; and it's very popular, so it has a large user support base.  I have one other cross-platform sequencer program that I want to try, but the Windows 7 laptop with it will not be available to me until after midnight.  If it works, I will offer it to you, but it comes with a huge caviat that you will need to take into consideration, but we will get to that later.  I am trying to keep your investment, both financially and from a learning effort stand point, to a minimum, until you decide whether or not you are interested in doing this enough to warrant expanding the investments.

 

Now, what to do when the right and left hand notes are combined on the same MIDI channel?  Understand, what I am about to offer only works for simple songs, like you would expect to find in a typical "Lesson" environment - old standards like "Oh Susanna", or "Old Folks at Home", or "Three Blind Mice" - songs where the right hand stays Middle-C and above, and the left hand stays below Middle-C, but if there is a lot of crossing of either or both hands back and forth across Middle-C, then forget it.  Those songs wouldn't be worth wasting the effort trying to separate their right and left note data.  OK!  I will assume that you have left your keyboard's "Navigate" Channels at their default Channel 3 (Left) and Channel 4 (Right).  Start your sequencer software and load your MIDI file into it.  Check Tracks/Channels 3 and 4 to see if there is any "interferring" data located on either of them.  If so, move (cut/paste) it to another available track/channel.  Keep in mind that on most modern keyboards and sound modules, Track/Channel 10 is reserved for the drum kit.  Now, find your combined note data and move (cut/paste) it to Track/Channel 4.  This will eventually become your right hand data.  Clone (copy/paste) Track/Channel 4 to Track/Channel 3.  While you are on Track/Channel 3, batch delete all notes Middle-C and above.  Track/Channel 3 is now your left hand data.  Go back to Track/Channel 4 and batch delete all notes below Middle-C.  Track/Channel 4 is now your right hand data, and you are done.  You can mitigate the "crossing Middle-C" problem, mentioned above, somewhat by checking the score, and if you notice that the left hand is playing a bass line that stays well below Middle-C, while the right hand drifts back and forth across Middle-C, just move your "batch delete" split point down a few notes to accomodate the situation.  I normally mention, at this point, that all of this probably sounds overly complicated and tedious, but it really isn't.  Once you have done it a couple of times, your workflow becomes pretty much automatic, and you can nock out a song in a couple of minutes.  It is also very good practice for those who want to go deeper into sequencing and that type of music production.

 

That's it for now.  Will be back later, after I have had a chance to look at that other sequencer program.

 

- T -

 

[- T -]

Well Jax !

 

I came up short on two more accounts.  That cross-platform sequencer I wanted to test was unacceptable.  It is a program called Frinika.  It looks a lot like Anvil Studio, and I think it would work for you, BUT . . . . it is cross-platform because it is a JAVA SCRIPT program, and it is Java that is the cross-platform environment, not the program itself.  Even though I have Java on one of my systems, I will not recommend it for someone else, because of its long history as a security risk.  I do not want to be responsible for someone else's system getting hacked.  Besides, you would need to install Java on your MAC as a "run-time" program.  Run-time programs can generate any number of problems (lock-ups, etc) for the operating system when they are running.  So this one looks like an all-around bad deal.

 

I did look at another straight-up cross-platform program called Aria Maestosa.  Here again, at first glance, it looks like it would work for you,  but it does have a really major draw-back.  Most MIDI files have a group of keyboard/sound module setup commands embedded in the file header for such things as initial volume, panning, and effects settings for each active track in the file.  Aria Maestosa does not support this.  So, that means just about any MIDI file you play with this sequencer will most likely sound absolutely nothing like what its original author intended.  I find this totally unacceptable.

 

I did download Muse Score and took a closer look at it, but as I stated above, it lacks the "tracks" and "piano-roll" editing screens of a full sequencr that you need to do the editing that you need to do.

 

You might want to look at trial versions of some of the major DAW's (the "Big Boys": Ableton Live, Reaper, Pro Tools, etc) to see if any of them would work for you, but I have two that you can scratch off the list, as I have already looked at them for you.  My first thought, at the very start of all this, was to have you download a trial version of FL Studio (formerly Fruity Loops - I guess they decided they needed a more "grown-up" name!), but then I discovered that FL Studio does not have a 30 or 60 day trial period.  Instead, they cripple the ability to save and to manipulate tracks - the very things you need to test.  So scratch that one.  Every time the nice folks at Tracktion release a new version, they offer the previous version as a free download, so last night, I downloaded Tracktion 7, but it is about 99.5% audio (obviously living up to its Digital AUDIO Workstation name), and about .5% MIDI.  When you import (not load) a MIDI file, Tracktion assumes that you want to "render" it to an audio file, not to just edit and play it.  For extensive audio recording  and mastering, it is terrific, but for simple MIDI file edits and playing, all the audio stuff just gets in your way.  I have noticed this trait with many of the high-end DAWs. So scratch that one, as well.

 

At this point, I am going to suggest you post your needs on one of the MAC or OSx forums (or maybe several of the generic music production forums).  Just make sure that whoever you converse with understands that you are talking about a simple MIDI sequencer/editor.  Oh! By the way - that is a LINEAR sequencer - not a PATTEERN (LOOPING) sequencer.  A pattern sequencer will do you no good.  As time permits, I will keep checking, and let you know if I come up with anything.

 

In closing, I will offer this.  For you, it is obviously premature, but something to think about down the line.  I came across it on another forum during my searches yesterday.  One respondent was asking why Apple does not offer a trial version of its Logic Pro DAW.  The answer was . . .  because if you have a MAC, you already have the trial version of Logic Pro . . . . because the trial version of Logic Pro is . . . . .  Garageband.  Logic Pro picks up where Garageband left off, and provides everything that Garageband left out.  Think about it - a high-end DAW with fairly well balanced MIDI/audio features by Apple for an Apple computer - with all of Apple's technical support and all of Apple's user support base!  Right now, Amazon is offering Logic Pro X, straight from the App Store for $80 USD - for what all it does, and what all you get, that is a pretty good deal.  Like I said - something to think about.

 

Regards!

 

- T -