MIDI programs keep changing the tone

[theodorn]

Has anybody else experienced that? I'm using two programs, Synthesia and Notation Composer. I tried to hook up to MIDI Illustrator Maestro, it didn't happen there though. In the other two programs, the tone is always changed to GM Piano 1. Is there any way to prevent this from happening? This almost makes it impossible to hook up to the named software packages.

 

I tried changing the Local Control when connecting the Synthesia, after consulting with the Synthesia developer on the software's webpage. It worked better but the volume was much lower that way, probably because the external software was in charge of the piano. Not sure about this though.

 

With Notation Composer, setting Local Contral to Off didn't change a thing. The software kept switching my PX-5S to the annoying GM Piano 1.

[Choppin]

Check the bug reports in Notation Composer.  There was a bug where clicking on a measure caused the program change to use the NEXT program change and not the one previous to the click point.  There may be other bugs if you are not setting the track to program change 00 and it keeps doing it on it's own.

 

Also try turning off the midi hi res on the Px-5s.  May be worth a shot.

[theodorn]

Thank you, Choppin. I could set an option in the configuration window of NC so that it leaves the settings of the PX-5S alone, by setting Bank select to None. Similar thing in Synthesia, there it's called MIDI.AllowProgramChange. Unchecked that option and everything is working the way I want it. I'll try your suggestion if I have more problems regarding this.

[theodorn]

Unfortunately both programs keep messing with the piano. Synthesia has actually stopped switching to GM Piano 1, but is now layering piano and strings on stage setting 0-0. The strange thing is that zones 2-4 are shown as off and the only zone on is zone 1, with grand piano. As you know, strings are on zone 2 in setting 0-0. Composer has started switching to GM Piano 1 again, even with Bank Select method set to None. Settig High reso out to Off didn't change anything, regarding this.

[Choppin]

Hi,

 

I downloaded the trial version of Notation Composer to give it a try.  It seems to work fine for me.  First thing I did was under Setup > Configuration > Port > Select Ports...

 

Turn off all ports except the Casio .

 

Set the instrument for the staff(s) using Staff > Setup.

 

Choose the staff you want to set the default instrument for.  Using the grid selection at the bottom, choose your instrument.  The default is GM instruments so choosing these will change the tone on the current stage setting for that midi channel assigned to the staff.  So in the case of zones 1,2,3 or 4, this will change the tones for any of those zones if the staff corresponds to that zone.

 

Now, if you want the staff (should be all staves) to change the Stage Setting, then in the boxes on this screen labeled "Enter Bank Selection", set Ctrl 0 = 112 and Ctrl 32 = 36 .  Then in the table selection, click on any grid space.  The numbers minus 1 will be the number of the stage setting.  So if you clicked on, say, box 32 then the stage setting selected would be 31.

 

If you want a program change to occur in a measure, click "Sound Changes" tab, click on the measure, then choose your instrument the same way.

 

Note: you cant have different stage settings for different staves that play simultaneously.  Likely, the last stage setting selected would be the one used.  Also be aware that changing instruments for specific staffs will change the tone based on the bank select and for the midi channels assigned to that staff.  If it's not the stage setting bank (112, 36) then it will default to GM.  If you have other banks set up, it will used that program change configuration.  This might be why you are seeing differences in the tones on stage settings.

[theodorn]

Thank you for your help, Choppin. I tried this manual inserting of bank numbers, didn't solve my problem. It seems Composer always creates some MIDI bank. I even tried deleting that bank, and made a new one with [Ctrl0,Ctrl32] = [112,36] attempting to force NC to use the new bank. It didn't work.

 

I can actually scroll through, or control, the voices in the PX-5S just by scrolling through the cells in the table below, you mentioned. The strange thing is, that the cells have no names or values, but they for sure represent some of the voices. I would like to be able to close the door to all outside interference with settings on my PX-5S, but it seems impossible to do that without also cutting the piano away from the outside world.

[Choppin]

There must be something missing in the setup.  With the trial version, I was able to set the instrument for the staves and the program change using gm and the stage settings. i was able to put some notes on the staff and play them back on the px-5s with the program changes i chose.  can you post a screen shot of your staff setup - with instrument choices?

[theodorn]

It seems the problem is solved, after a long reading of the MIDI implementation document. There are some controls, which are numbered 0 and 32 respectively, 00H and 20H in hexadecimal, as is used in the MIDI implementation document for the PX-5S. It talks about something called Bank Select MSB. MSB stands for most significant bit and represents some binary number that has to do with some activity in the piano, in this case selecting a bank. The MSB for the Grand Piano Concert sound is 64.

 

According to the MIDI document, I had to enter the LSB, least significant bit, into control 32. That one was a bit harder to find out. I set the MIDI-OX program up with the PX-5S hooked up, switched to every tone on zone 1, from 00 (the grand piano) to the troublesome GM Piano 1, which is number 17 and logged all activity. The MIDI-OX registers the MSB and LSB, which I found out to be 40 and 00 in hex for all the tones, or 64 (just as it says in the tone list of the tutorial) and 0 in decimal, respectively.

 

To sum it up, by setting ctrl0 = 64 and ctrl32 = 0, Notation Composer stopped playing the strings on top of the piano sound.

 

Thanks for all your help, hope this experience of mine will be of use to someone who gets in similar trouble, but I actually hope noone will. At least I learned more about MIDI!

[Choppin]

I'm glad you found a solution!  I'm just curious, you indicate that Notation Composer was always creating a bank and then using that for your instrument sounds - always defaulting to Bank 0 0 patch 0 = gm piano.  With the trial version, I was able to override that just by typing the bank ctrls in the boxes (Ctrl 0 = and Ctrl 32 =  ) from the start.  I didn't have to create a new bank.  Was it not allowing you to do that?  As far as the port setup, I had eliminated all ports except the Casio so I could only focus on the input and output for that device, maybe that made a difference when I was doing my tests.  

 

Just a note, the 64 represents the Piano bank select button on the Px-5s.  65 is the electric piano button, 66 is the organ button, etc.  While these banks select the different groups of instrument tones for the Px, the control for turning on or off additional sounds on Notation Composer would likely come from how the staff is set up.  When you indicate that the string sound no longer plays, my suspicion is that you have set multiple zones to the same instrument sound.  I say that because changing the bank and instrument only affects the zone that matches the midi channel being sent the program change.

[theodorn]

Not sure if this bank is created on the fly - probably not - rather something that is there by default. Called general midi, everything set to zero. I always have to assign each new score to my new bank, which I simply call StageSet00. A real brute force solution. I wish there was some easier way to do this,

 

I'm still having the same trouble with Synthesia. The problem is understanding MIDI, knowing how all the different stage settings map to our computer programs and how to access that information. Now I'm using something called Loopbe1 with MIDI-OX to run Synthesia. It stops this string fetish of Synthesia, but now the problem is Synthesia won't play the tracks, they are muted. Although I can play myself and the voices are not changed.

 

Maybe it's not worth the time and trouble to sort this out and I should just stick with paper sheets!

[theodorn]

Just for the record, if you Choppin, or anyone reading this thread is not in the Facebook group, the problem has been solved. Mike said the voice in zone 2 was connected to MIDI channel 2. Even if zone 2 is off, external MIDI programs can have access to the voice there and it seems Synthesia and Composer were invoking the voice on zone 2, by sending a request through MIDI channel 2 and therefore strings were played.

 

I simply set all zones to GrPnoConcert, consequently, only GrPnoConcert could be played by the programs.