a few basic midi controller questions

[leeskeys]

I know that not everyone is familiar with Kurzweil keyboards, but let me know in general if what I'm saying here makes sense and sounds feasible with the Px5. I've posted this to a Kurweil user group as well. I've stated I've been using the Px3, which is correct, but as of about a week ago, I have a Px5, so my questions are about the Kurzweil PC3 and Privia Px5 combination:

 

 

Forgive me if this has been covered in other posts.... I've been using my PC3 and Casio Px3 as midi controllers for a while now, with each keyboard connected to my computer (and VST host) viatheir own separate USB-midi outputs.

Now I'm realizing that it's probably possible to change my setup so that just the PC3 is connected to the computer, and that the PC3 and Casio are connected to each other by midi out (PC3) to midi in (Px3). Once this is done, is it then possible to create a setup with two zones, one of which uses the PC3 keyboard to control an internal program, or a VST on my computer (destination Midi-USB), and another zone, with the destination of Midi, which allows me to use the PC3 to determine what sounds come through the Casio? Furthermore, can the zone sending a message to the Casio also be set up so that the sound produced on the Casio originates from a PC3 program, a VST on the laptop, or a patch which is internal to the Casio?

Thanks, and any references you could provide on this subject (within or outside of Casio Forums) on this subject would be greatly appreciated!

[Choppin]

Hello,

 

 

 

Midi generally moves in one direction.  Meaning, there is a chain of devices that ends either at IN or starts at OUT.  If there is a THRU, then the midi data will pass through a device until it reaches it's final IN.  With that being said, the Px-5s can either play received midi information, or pass it through.  It cannot do both for a single port.  A midi device is either a receiver (MIDI IN, MIDI THRU) or a transmitter (MIDI OUT).  For example, on the Px-5s, you can have input coming from both the USB port and the standard MIDI IN. You can either play the keyboard sounds as a result of the input, or send a MIDI or USB out signal of the received data.

 

 

Let's say you use the PC3 to control the playing on both the computer and the PX-5s.  If you run the MIDI OUT of the PC3 to the PX MIDI IN, you have 3 choices of what to do with the input:

 

 

1. You can send the input directly to the MIDI OUT of the PX (passing the data THRU) and the PX-5s will play sounds and send the input signal on to the next device

2. You can send the input to the keyboard, which will activate the sound generator of the PX but all MIDI from the IN port stops there.

3. You can send the input directly to the USB out of the PX passing the data THRU much in the same way as the MIDI OUT.

 

 

It's the same 3 choices for input received by USB

 

 

With that being said, in trying to generally answer your question using the PC3 as the main controller, if you send USB to the computer, and MIDI OUT to the PX, you could control both devices independently.

 

 

Getting a little creative, if you can send both USB and MIDI to the Px-5s, with a MIDI adapter (convert standard midi 5 pin to USB), you could route from the PX MIDI out as a THRU.  The USB in would be set to play the sounds from the keyboard.  his way, in theory, you could play the sounds on the PX and pass through the same data back to the computer controlling whatever VST through the PC3.  However, the programs you choose are going to change the PX and the computer the same way since it would essentially be the same midi data.  On the PX-5s it's possible to turn the sound generator off for specific channels.  But this setup would start to get very complicated very quickly.

 

 

The PX5s has it's own sound generator, so the sounds that come out of it will always be it's own.  The changes you make external (selecting patches, banks, etc.) will change the tone and or stage setting selections on the PX - but they will only be the PXs sounds.  And since the source is external, the PX-5s controls will not affect another device unless you jump on the PX5s itself and start pressing keys, pushing buttons, and moving dials - in which case it changes from being a receiver to a transmitter.

 

Not sure if this overview helped.

[leeskeys]

Yes, it does help, but I'm getting myself confused. I've set up the PC3 and Px5 and connected them via PC3 midi out, and Px5 midi in. I created a Setup on the Pc3 which has 2 zones. Zone 1 is Local, which captures and outputs an internal sound on the PC3. For Zone 2, Midi is the destination. When I set Zone 2 to Channel 1, I can cycle through the PX5's GM tones by changing the Midi Program number for Zone 2.

 

Using the Channel,  MidiBank, and MidiProgram options in Zone 2, is there a way to tell the select a particular Stage setup on the Px5? What settings need to manipulated in the Px5 to "sync" things up? My goal here is to reduce the amount of time it takes to "dial in" to the correct settings on both keyboards during  live performances when I'm using both keyboards on a particular song.

[Choppin]

To change stage settings, you have to send bank and program change information:

 

MSB=112

LSB=00

Program Change = stage setting number.

 

[EDIT]

I was in error, I previously listed 36 as being sent as an LSB when a stage setting is changed, in actuality, 36 is used in an NPRN command to change the stage setting using data entry.

 

98 00

99 36

06 stage setting

38 00

[/EDIT]

 

Once you change the stage setting, the 4 zones of the PX-5s will receive on channels 1,2,3 and 4.  If you transmit on these channels, you will play those zones.

[leeskeys]

thanks, very helpful!

[leeskeys]

Choppin, is this information about MSB and LSB settings in the manual?

[Choppin]

Yes - in the manual labeled Tutorial.  It is briefly mentioned in one line in a table about midi settings.  The detail is outlined in the Midi specifications manual - though it's a bit cryptic unless you kinda know what you are looking for.    This information is there in the manuals, but it's hidden in the weeds so to speak.

 

So to actually change a stage setting on the Px-5s from an external source, you only need to send MSB=112 (bank change) and Program change = stage setting.  The LSB is ignored by the px-5s. 

[leeskeys]

Thanks. Yes, I found the Midi manual to be VERY cryptic! "Px5 Midi for Dummies" needed!

[leeskeys]

 Choppin, thanks again for your help. I sat down at my keyboards tonight, tried it out, and after a little fiddling with settings on the Kurz, it works!

[leeskeys]

Choppin- so far so good. I've connected Midi Out from the PC3 to Midi In for the Px5. I'm able to create new zones in PC3 setups to call up specific Stage Setups on the Px5. Next I'd like to be able to use zone settings on the PC3 to channel a VSTi from my laptop to a Px5 stage setting.  Let's say I have the VSTi set for Channel 14 and I want to call up Program 1 of that particular VSTi. How do I do this?

 

Perhaps you've already explained it in your previous posts, but it's not clear to me what I need to do. With my current setup, I do not have the Px5 connected to the laptop; only the PC3 is connected to the laptop via USB.

[Choppin]

Hi,

 

What do you want controlling the VSTi?  I don't understand the question.  Are you controlling the VSTi from the PC3?  So midi out to the PX-5s and USB out to the computer from the PC3, is that correct?

 

If that's the case then whatever zone is controlling channel 14 from the PC3, send a program change to the computer to change the VSTi instrument.  I don't know how the PC3 works so I'm not even sure if you can do that.

[leeskeys]

You're interpretation of my setup is correct. Let's say the VSTi is an EP which has several banks and within each bank are several program numbers. The VSTi is set to transmit on midi channel 14 and the particular VSTi setting I want to play on the PX5 is Program 3 in Bank 1 of the VSTi. So to make that happen, I would need to set the Destination for the PC3 zone to "midi"- that would send the signal to the PX5, then set the PC3 zone channel to 14, bank to 1 and program to 3. So for the PX5 to receive and recognize that information correctly, what do I do? Do I need to set up a stage setting in a particular way?