The NAMM Show 2013

[SonnyDaye]

I obviously can't be too specific right now. I'll say this.... In terms of editing sounds and control it is above and beyond anything we've done before. I'll also clarify that it is 88 keys.

Last I wanted to let you know that unlike XW which we launched last year at NAMM, this product has come to us on a different schedule. We won't have a big introduction video that does a tour of the product completed until after the show. We will do our best to get as much video shot during NAMM and then work on other videos after.

Sorry to hear it's 88 keys!

I'll keep dreaming about 76 key versions with lottsa sliders.

[stevecoscia]

I also like 76 keys - this preference goes back to the late 1970s when I played an ARP 4 Voice piano (that unit had 73 keys).

My old 48" A-Frame Ultimate Support stand will fit a 76 key unit, not an 88. Also, I found that 88 keys was overkill and the fewer inches made traveling much easier. The ARP Piano was in an Anvil road case which made it a bear anyway - an 88 key unit would have been too much. Although, back then almost everything was much heavier. Overall, I have gotten used to playing 76 keys.

[Null]

The lack of controls on the surface tells me already that all the sound editing is only doable via software which to me is a big step backward. Considering the scarcity of updates for the XW's editor and the subsequent breakage by updates to Windows I have to say I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any more updates anytime soon.

[Mike Martin]

Happyrat - what problems are you having with the XW editor?

[Mike Martin]

As for the editing on this new product it can all be done on the unit itself. All the programming I'm doing for NAMM is done on the unit itself.

[Mike Martin]

Take the mixer off of the XW display, just leave the graphic section and that's how big the display is on this new product.

[Mike Martin]

Discussion about XW editor moved

[Technics]

Thursday can't come soon enough!

This new Privia looks promising. Hope you guys steal the show again.

Sonicstate claims that this is supposed to be Casio's most powerful synth ever, so hopefully:

• it has XW synth engine, but this time it is a polysynth
  
• it retains Privia's AiR engine, samples and hammer action keybed
  
• it has an enticing street price
  
• lots of people have been crying for phase distortion from CZ
  

The rest are just details....

[-ED-]

OK, this may sound stupid as I'm new to the whole 'keyboards' thing but regarding the number of keys question...

What about a modular approach where the keyboard 'guts' could be attached to various 'bases' of the keys bed?

That way you could buy the keyboard/synth main part and then an 88/76/61 key bed with options for weighted/aftertouch etc.

There would obviously be blank panels to cover the various spaces either side.Electronic connections to keys and wheels would be slot type universal for all components.

This idea could be expanded to have different modules available like a synth/organ/sampler etc. which could be added to the main unit for dedicated enhancements.

[Null]

Hi Ed...

OK, so what you are talking about already exists. People buy dedicated MIDI controllers and then hook them up to rack mountable synth modules. Furthermore nowadays many people simply invest in a cheap dedicated MIDI controller and hook them up to a computer VST/DAW for infinite programmability and obsolence proofing.

Pretty much every major keyboard manufacturer makes them except Casio. I don't really think that design philosophy fits in with their populist design philosophy of keyboard design and manufacture. Then again, a keyboard like the PX-3 can make an excellent MIDI controller should one desire to do so. Just plug in any synth module and you're off to the races.

Anyway, my take on Casio's objective is to bring professional equipment to the keyboard market at the lowest possible price point for value. This becomes impossible if your product lines become too diverse and scattered and you lose focus on your core business.

BTW, street price on the PX-3 which would make an excellent controller is about par with other manufacturers' dedicated "dumb" controllers.

Do a little googling on "VST" and "rack mounted synth module" if you need further explanation.

Gary

[-ED-]

Thanks for the reply Gary.

I was thinking more of a portable unit being modular. So it would be a bit like using a midi controller but in one box.

The key-beds vary in number of keys and actions so why not make them fit any of their products...

If Casio were to design it well then the connections could be universal for any product they were to make afterwards. So there would always be options for the customer without having to sell various models (eg CTK-7000 & WK-7500)

There would be no extra cost in producing separate keybeds or main modules so the prices would remain roughly the same. (In fact it might be cheaper as Casio would not have to design and build different keybeds for each model)

As a quick example below I used the XW-P1 but the theory is that a Privia (main module) and future models would fit into the same keybeds. (Possibly with a different plastic surround)

I only show 3 sizes (which are not correct) but there would be options for different key actions as well.

[Null]

I don't see any advantage to that design. It would be like reinventing the wheel. MIDI connectivity is already an industry standard allowing any module to connect to any controller, regardless of manufacturer.

A proprietary form factor and connection scheme would only limit Casio's market for such devices and would probably be passed on by musicians looking for maximum flexibility and obsolescence proofing and resale value.

Here's a couple of examples of what I'm talking about.

http://www.roland.com/products/en/JV-1010/

http://global.novationmusic.com/midi-controllers/sl-mkii

If Casio were to fly in the face of conventional design with a proprietary connector and hardware form factor it would go over with professional musicians like a lead balloon.

Gary

[-ED-]

I was thinking more of the portable keyboard market but I guess it wouldn't work otherwise they would have done it already

Only a few days left before all is revealed...

[Technics]

@ ED

I agree with Gary.

Modular system is probably where Casio's market strategy is not heading. They are only just back after 24 years, so it is still too early to tell, but this is my hunch:

• They try to target hobby, prosumer market while punching way above its weight, so pro market gets in scope as well, w/o sacrificing hobby, prosumer)
  that brings their max price lower than the other manufacturers'. If XW cost nearly a grand, hobbyists such as myself wouldn't even consider it
  
• Their design clearly targets younger generation and actually brings back some of the 80's design - I don't think it is populist. It's more of a generational gap.
  
• I think Casio's approach is "one board does it all" type of a thing where you have the ability to connect other equipment, but WX has enough functionality to work on its own and is much more packed with features and flexible
  
• Unlike modular systems, here you can grab a single board shove it in a bag and hop on a scooter to see your buddies. Modular system? You need multiple bags and a minivan. :-)
  
• Modular system (Moog style) is not likely possible in this price range they are targeting.
  You have to think about the design and logistics of the manufacturing process - the more models or parts, the more complicated the process is.
  In order to even consider to have dedicated assembly lines for each product, you'd have to have enough volume to pay for itself, if you want to make profit and still keep the price low. That's why modular systems are so expensive - there simply isn't enough volume to bring the price down.
  

I like Casio's strategy: Keep price low enough to attract hobby and prosumer musicians, pack it with features to pleasantly surprise even pros who would not have expected this quality and steal the thunder from the "big three". As long as they keep their focus, keep the synth category model count to a handful at most and keep refining them, they have a really good chance to make a big success.

I almost bought a Korg microstation or Gaia before I saw the XW. Now, I'm really considering XW instead - if only did it have poly synth! :-). I like Korg and was disappointed to see that they released a "new" product which had actually less ROM and cost more than its indirect predecessor? WTH!? There is no way in hell I'd buy any $500 Korg, Yamaha or Roland product after hearing what XW can do. Not even a Microkorg - it may sound better and be more flexible than XW, but 61 keys and sequencer on XW totally K.O. the Korg in that regard.

Shining example is Apple, they do not release dozens of model categories, they have a handful of iPods and Macs, few iPods, couple iPhones and that's it. Instead of dozens of products, they focus on a few and keep razor sharp focus on refining them...

I really like where Casio is heading. They are filling in a void where the other brands were too lazy to even look.

I was thinking more of the portable keyboard market but I guess it wouldn't work otherwise they would have done it already

Only a few days left before all is revealed...

[Technics]

I have to add one more thing:

I think the rubber pad to put your iPad, iPhone, Mixer, Blofeld or Kaoss Pad is one of the greatest things they have done. No need to worry about an extra rack or stand to put them on.

To control Animoog from XW via USB and then loop its sound from iPad as the 6th oscillator back into XW was a great idea

Another evidence of this being an all-in-one tool.

[Analoguesque]

I have to say that as a long time owner and lover of my CZ-1, I'm not as concerned as others about having hundreds of knobs to twiddle. Sure it would be great, but the CZ-1 had no twiddly knobs and it was a breeze. I wish Casio came out with something different like they did with the CZ. Making something super-editable and "the most powerful ever" doesn't translate to greatness, especially if others already do this quite well. Nobody seems to be doing anything different or new - it's all just varying flavors of technology released within the last 10 to 15 years. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of virtual analog, but at some point somebody is going to release virtual digital stuff from the 80s. Yeah I know, "virtual digital" makes no sense but what I mean is that someone is going to realize there is a huge untapped resource of sounds that came out just after analog ... Aka the whole CZ and FM period. There's already a bunch of software but no real hardware with sounds from this period, unless they're sampled.

My vote would be for a bigger, better, newer CZ. Cleaner, lots more waveforms, lots more polyphony and multi-timbrality, maybe a few knobs , and full editability from a PC or iPad ... Etc.

[Null]

Well the truth is that an audio wave is an audio wave. Any waveform imaginable can be built from a fundamental sine wave and an infinite succession of lesser harmonics.

As far as creating some amazing new sound goes, technology has pretty much reached a theoretical limit on creating anything truly new.

On the other hand, when it comes to refining the user interface and making those waveforms available on demand or even in a live performance and instantly accessible, THAT'S an area which can always stand to see improvement.

I've owned a Korg TR for about 3 years and a Casio XW-P1 for the better part of the last year.

I can honestly say it would take me the better part of a decade to memorize the manuals, audition all of the stock 2000 or so sounds, and tweak them into every possible permutation. That's because every modern synth keyboard is a full blown computer with a custom operating system working with a tiny 6 or 7 line LCD screen and a couple of dozen buttons.

If I were to venture a guess at the future of sound synthesis, I'd envision a full blown computer, about the size of a mac mini, with a 20 inch touchscreen, a mouse, a qwerty keyboard, a full blown MIDI controller and a custom, industry standard operating system which runs VSTs, DAWs, and custom editors to create and sequence any combination of waveforms imaginable.

One or two of these beasts would satisfy absolutely anyone from the advanced hobbyist to the most technically critical stage performer to the studio wizards who compose movie scores and soundtracks.

In truth it wouldn't be a bad project for an outfit like Casio to tackle in the near future. In all likelihood this is the shape of things to come and will someday become the industry standard.

First one to make it to the weapons wins the hunger games :D

Gary

PS. Actually an outfit called Lionstracs comes close to this design philosophy, though their machine is still hidebound with tradtional form factors.

http://www.lionstrac...oove/keyboards/

Another one is an outfit called Music Computing

http://www.musiccomp...com/studioblade

And a third one with a more modular approach is the Muse Receptor.

http://www.museresearch.com/products/index.php

And for the most part, these guys are working with custom Linux kernels as their OS of choice.

[pjprevitejr]

I still enjoy gigging with my PX-3 but when I read about the improved keyboard action and the AIR sound engine in the new PX-350, I have to admit, I was quite envious. If there were to be a succesor to the PX-3, I would still appreciate the following features:

- Improved Privia keyboard action (PX-350)

- AIR sound generation (PX-350)

- Expression Pedal input that could be assigned to certain splits or layers

- Circuitry enabling the sustain pedal to double as a Fast/Slow speed switch for the rotary effect.

- "Drawbar" arrangement to control the organ sounds

- Larger Preset Buttons

That's about it. Everything else on the PX-3 works great as is.

Peter Previte (new to the Forum but an old fan of the Privia line)

.

[-ED-]

Hi and welcome Peter,

About the modular idea: Fair enough. I Just wanted to get the idea across as I'm new to the whole keyboard/synth thing it might have been a different angle.

I'm sure Casio will break a few molds and shake the other company trees

[Guest Grasspike]

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of virtual analog, but at some point somebody is going to release virtual digital stuff from the 80s. Yeah I know, "virtual digital" makes no sense but what I mean is that someone is going to realize there is a huge untapped resource of sounds that came out just after analog ... Aka the whole CZ and FM period. There's already a bunch of software but no real hardware with sounds from this period, unless they're sampled.

My vote would be for a bigger, better, newer CZ. Cleaner, lots more waveforms, lots more polyphony and multi-timbrality, maybe a few knobs , and full editability from a PC or iPad ... Etc.

Yep I agree, I would love a Casio XW-CZ. Which could be made in the same casing as the XW-P1. They could drop the Hex Synth, the Drawbar Organ and the Mono Synth.

Let it have a CZ synth engine (virtual or otherwise) and let you edit everything via the knobs and sliders on the unit or via PC editor. Keep the Rompler PCM sounds, and the Drum Kits as well as both sequencers and the Arp. Then just for fun make it have a virtual Casio VL Tone monosynth with the 5 preset sounds and be able to use the jog wheel to edit the timbres numerically and save as presets just like on the real VL Tone. Would be cool to add some PCM samples from drums of various classic Casio Keyboards from the 1980s like the VL tone and the SK series, as well as PCM samples of the actual synth voices from presets of said synths.

I would love for example to be able to play the "fantasy" voice from the VL Tone as polyphonic instrument via high quality samples, as well as "flute" from the SK-1 etc.

[fretnoise]

Found the following: http://casiomusicgear.com/resource/namm2013/index.html

So, a PX-5S and a PX-780 it is Page says "Introducing new Privia PRO pianos"...

[-ED-]

Good find

[pjprevitejr]

OMG Good find! Maybe it will finally be time to trade up my PX-3 to the new PX-5S ????

[Null]

From PX-3 to PX-3S to PX-5S...

I wonder what Casio has against even model numbers?

[pjprevitejr]

That is a good question. I'll tell something that is without question.... and that is how attentive and diligent Mike Martin has always been about giving us the latest scoop about new Casio products and finding out answers to our questions!