BrettM

Listening to Patrick Arend's hex layers got me thinking about how to implement multiple layers on the G1 and I've come up with a method of using the 9 parts of the step sequencer to create what I'm calling the nona-layer. "Nona" can mean nine or none, depending on your point of view. I'm posting this in the general discussion, rather than the G1 specific area, because it may be of some amusement to P1 owners as well. P1 owners will probably find it easier to get a 9 tone sound by using performance mode with a hex layer in zone 1.

The basic idea is to tie all 16 steps of each step sequencer track into one continuous note. Then use the mixer to assign any PCM tone to each of the 9 parts, including the drum and bass parts. The mixer and sliders can also be used to mix in the volumes, pans, etc. of each part to create the overall nona-layer tone. Keyshift with realtime shift timing can be enabled for each part to create a small mini playing area in the bottom octave of the keyboard. G1 owners are able sample the nona-layer, loop it, and use it across the entire keyboard. (Four sampled nona-layers in performance mode gives a potential 36 layer sound! Then there's overdubbing.)

Here are the basic steps for creating the nona-layer:

1. Select an empty step sequence.

2. On track 1/part 8 (Drm1), tie steps 2 – 16 to step 1.

3. In track parameters for track 1, set step size to maximum, 1/4 notes, and note length to 100%.

4. In track parameters for track 1, enable keyshift in realtime on track 1

5. Copy part 8 to parts 9-15 using the copy menu. This is the quickest way of repeating steps 2 to 4 on the other tracks.

6. Set up part 16 (chord track) similarly. Part 16 can't simply be copied from part 8 so you have to do it manually.

7. Use the mixer to assign the desired PCM tones to each part.

8. Set tempo to 30, the minimum value. This is strictly not necessary, but ensures that the nona-layer will play as long as possible before the step sequence restarts.

9. Press Start and listen to your tone.

10. Use the mixer and the sliders to mix in the desired levels of each individual part. This is the interesting bit.

Limitations

• Can only play keys C2-B2.

• Apart from using the sampler, I can't think of a way to access multiple octaves in the mini left hand keyshift keyboard. I tried different step sequencer patterns with the note of each track shifted an octave, but couldn't get the patterns to change quickly enough in real time. The G1's multifunction keyboard didn't seem to help either.

• Slight blip each time the sequence restarts.

Differences from hex layer

• Three more layers!

• Accesses PCM tones rather than PCM waves. G1 owners are able to extract solo synth and PCM waves via sampling.

• Does not have velocity switching.

If you discover a way of improving this set up, please let us know.

I've posted a demo nona-layer in the G1 downloads section.

Enjoy!

Thanks for the tip, Brad. Especially about using the Menu button to view the sample amplitude at each point. I don't think this is documented in the manual.

I've now done a bit of searching on looping techniques and realise that I rediscovered the fundamental looping problem first identified about 30 years ago. It's great how this synthesizer is bringing me up to date.

A good intro tutorial on looping techniques can be found here: http://troywoodfield.tripod.com/looptech.html

Zergmazter, I had exactly the same problem when trying to sample a simple sine wave from the solo synthesizer (the PCM version, P268, has virbrato and I wanted a pure sine). This is the simplest waveform you can get and should be the easiest one to work with. I eventually got rid of most of the pop by adjusting the loop and end points very carefully, but this took a lot of trial and error. There must be an easier way!

What I think was happening was that I was not looping to exactly the same point in the wave and this caused a step that resulted in a pop. I had hoped the G1 would do something like cross-fade between the end and loop points so you don't have to align the waves perfectly to create a smooth, continuous loop. If it's difficult to do with a simple sine wave, it would be virtually impossible to get right with a more complex sound.

Does anyone know a solution to this problem?

 Are they room, hall, plate or something else? When would you use one or the other?

Got 'em all now, thanks Patrick, and I've had time to listen to them more closely. They sound lovely! Just a couple of questions:

• I notice that you've only used two or three of the six available hex layers. Do you think these sounds could be created using zones 1-4 in performance mode, using what AlenK calls “quadlayer” or “trilayer”? http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/4790-external-filter-with-envelopes-for-hexlayer
• Are you using pitch lock?
• If I didn't know about hex layers, just listening to some of them, I would have thought they were made using a standard keyboard split with a chord pad in the left hand and the right hand playing a different lead tone. Mythic guitar, vibrapad, another earth and padit sound like this in particular. Or are they single tones spread right across the whole keyboard using hex layer velocity switching to access the different components of the sound?
• Are you using delay on mythic guitar?

Thanks again, Patrick, for sharing these examples of hex layers, much appreciated.

Got 'em Patrick, thanks. They sound great; a nice big, full sound with good stereo presence. Can't wait to hear some more.

Hi Patrick,

mp3's would be fine. I should have thought of that in the first place. Thanks for this, I'm really looking forward to hearing your stuff.

It would be great if some of you P1 owners would also post some .wav files of your hex layers in the download section so we G1 owners can hear what they sound like (special plea to Patrick!). I would also be interested in knowing some of the underlying details, waves used, etc.

To link either, or both, of the two LFOs to the total filter (Block 7), simply change the LFO1 Depth or LFO2 Depth (page E-27 of the manual) to a non zero number; plus change the depth of LFO output (page E-28) to be greater than zero. 

Alternatively, you can create an envelope (page E-27) to sweep the filter with each key press, according to the levels and timings you specify.

I think the above only affects the cutoff, not the resonance.

Similar effects can be obtained using the filters within each tone generation block 1-6 (page E-25), but they are usually not as dramatic as the total filter because their cutoff is not as steep and they are non-resonant.

File Name: P1 drum kits for G1

File Submitter: Brett M

File Submitted: 17 Feb 2014

File Category: XW-G1

Five of the standard drum kits included in the P1 were omitted from the G1 to make room for the G1's additional groove kits. However, comparison of the Instrument Number List in the appendix of each machine shows that the G1 contains all of the P1 drum waves as well as its own unique groove waves. This allows the missing drum kits to be recreated for the G1 as user drum tones. Please find attached user drum tones for Standard Set 3, Standard Set 4, Rock Set, Dance Set 3 and the Orchestra Set. Consult the P1 appendix for key assignments.

Click here to download this file

Easing up on the depth of the LFO controlling the pulse width will reduce the nasties.

The assignable knobs can be used to mix the volumes of each zone polyphonically in real time in performance mode, but shouldn't this also be possible in the mixer? Then the assignable knobs can be used for other things. The mixer works this way in the step sequencer, but not in a performance.

By "solo mode", I was referring to "solo mode" as mentioned on page E-68 of the P1 manual and page E-79 of the G1 manual, not the solo synth. These pages suggest that "solo mode" is available for all channels 1-16, i.e., zones 1-4 in performance mode as well as parts 8-16 in the step sequencer. Which means that "solo mode" can be switched on to sound a part monophonically, and switched off to hear the part polyphonically in the whole mix. I can't seem to switch solo mode off during a performance and mix all four zones polyphonically.

With the mixer in performance mode, can I use sliders 1-4 as faders for zones 1-4? I am able change the volume (and other parameters) of each zone independently/monophonically, but can I do it polyphonically in real time? I seem to be able to do this OK for parts 8-16 while in the step sequencer, but I can't get it to work for parts 1-4. This would be very useful for fine tuning sounds in performance mode. There is something called “solo mode” in the mixer, but it makes no difference whether it's on or off.  

Can't the LPF be used to reduce the "graininess" and other artifacts?

I agree that PWM-L and PWM-B sound better than PWM.

Mild delay is a good suggestion. I've just discovered another method, at least on the G1, using the sample looper. Record the desired tone in the sample looper, leaving a second or so of silence before playing it, then adjust the user wave start point parameter to control the onset timing. Seems to work.

More generally, it would be nice to have another envelope parameter called something like "init time".

Is it possible to control the onset/trigger timing of a tone? I'm thinking of a situation in Performance Mode (or maybe hex layer) in which one key press triggers different tones that are slightly staggered in their timing, i.e., the attacks start at different times. This would allow greater experimentation with the harmonics of different tones, or maybe even the same tone.