sslyutov

11 minutes ago, anotherscott said:

 

 

But did you load anything that used any of the SN Acoustic tones (or HQ PCM tones) tha didn't alady exist on the FA? Because from everything I've seen, that is not possible.

 

Here's the info from Roland...

 

https://rolandus.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205492526-FA-06-FA-08-Importing-Tones-from-Integra-7-Backups

 

...but it's for axial downloads or Integra backups (which don't include the underlying factory waves/models). You can't get at the Supernatural Acoustic tones that are in the Integra. See:

 

http://forums.rolandclan.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=54525

 

Integra Supernatural Acoustic instruments unavailable on the FA include:

 

vibes

marimba

harp

sitar

accordions

harmonica

tympani

solo brass (trumpet, trombone, french horn, saxes, etc.)

winds (oboe, bassoon, clarinets, piccolo, flutes)

solo strings (violin, viola, cello)

elec guitar

glockenspiel, xylophone, tubular bells, steel drums

choirs

bagpipes

...plus the additional SN instruments that can load into the virtual expansion slots (ethnic tones, and more in the way of brass, winds, acous/elec guitars and bass, brass)

 

The FA does include XV-5080 versions of most if not all of these instruments, of course. But those aren't the same, the XV-5080 came out in 2000.

 

 

I have never said it includes everything. Unavailable does not mean incompatible. 2000 vs 5000. it is obvious.

Integra supposedly includes virtually "everything"  Roland ever made.

"everything"

Thanks, guys for your criticism at least it made me look again through some specs.

I double checked it with specs

There are 7 types of engines

SuperNATURAL Acoustic (SN-A)

SuperNATURAL Synth (SN-S)

SuperNATURAL Drum Kit (SN-D)

PCM Synth Tone (PCMS)

PCM Drum Kit (PCMD)

GM2 Tone (PCM Synth Tone)

GM2 Drum Kit (PCM Drum Kit)

Integra has exactly the same list of engine types.

Compatibility with Integra:

17 out of 18 sound packages from  Roland Axial for Integra 7  can be loaded into FA.

http://axial.roland.com/category/integra-7/

Intergra7 is more advanced there is no question. 

Motional Surround is not present on FA.

Audio output is just by far more advanced on Integra.

2 hours ago, anotherscott said:

 

What are the 6 engines? I count:

 

* Supernatural Acoustic  (piano, tine and reed EPs, clav, organ, acoustic and electric bass, acoustic guitar, ensemble strings )  -- though I think you could make a case for the organ being its own engine

* SuperNatural synth (VA)

* PCM (everything else)

 

FA does not have 100% compatibility with Integra 7. The Supernatural Synth is compatible. Other than that, It has only a tiny fraction of the Integra's Supernatural Acoustic tones, and no way to load in the ones it doesn't have. It also doesn't have the Integra's HQ GM2/HQ PCM set.

You can load Integra sound banks into FA. I did it. You can find a video about this "easter egg" on youtube.

4 minutes ago, Shad0wfax said:

I agree that the MODX is a seriously good synth; awesome value for money! It has all the sounds and most of the capabilities of the Montage, but at half the price.

 

In fact, I was already saving for a Montage when the MODX come out. As soon as I read the specs and I watched some reviews, I sold my MOXF and I got a MODX

 

Casio's CT-X line is also excellent in terms of value for money, as it is the MZ-X300 which can still be purchased in some stores for as little as 300 Euro.

 

IMHO many people would be interested in a new Casio synth which included real PD/iPD synthesis and compatiblity with the patches from the CZ/VZ series, as Yamaha did with the Montage/MODX. At least I would

Can you confirm that MODX has only 4 keyboard controlled channels, the rest can be controlled  from the external source?

Great move!

Hope you will like your new keyboard.

4 hours ago, LarryK said:

I generally play with headphones, nobody has complained. 

 

I was told that the stand dimensions are: 52.25" wide, 14.50" deep, and 26" tall. I gain nine and a half inches with regards to the desk that it will be replacing,  so that's good. 

 

Thanks for clarifying what was slim about the keys. 

What is your keyboard right now ?

See page E133 of the manual

This feature called zoning

look for zone I the manual

it can have very different inmplementation from brand to brand.

13 minutes ago, LarryK said:

So, I went ahead and pre-ordered the PX-S3000, the stand, and the three pedal unit. I have very little space in my apartment for a keyboard and I appreciate the short depth of the keyboard. Does anybody know how deep the stand is? The keyboard itself is only nine inches deep. The has  little feet so it must be deeper than nine inches.

 

So, I read through the thread. Chandler says that the keys are slimmer and then says that visible/playable portions of the keys are full size. I'm a bit confused by that. What is slimmer in regards to the keys?

 

Does anybody think the Yamaha FP-30 is better than the PX-S3000? 

 

Roland FP-30(not Yamaha) It is definitely friendly to people surrounding you
In my opinion, it is crucial in a limited space environment.

Agreed about the importance of the size of the keys.

Switching from a light keyboard to weighted one is easy(subjective) and pleasant.

Switching from weighted one to lighter keys is not as comfortable.

All those GO, NP, Taktile, Kross, and more are not subjects for being the main keyboard. It is just nice to have something maneuverable under your hand. 

Halftime Report. (No NAMM is needed)

Two Yamahas on the stage and no Casio.

How does Yamaha do this? ;)

That's the promotion! 🎢

(IK Multimedia iRig Keys)

1) You may use a different class of keyboard/controller.

Something like iRig Keys.

When controller connected to iPad it charges the iPad batteries. The keyboard has to be connected to an external power supply.

iRig Keys has headphones audio output which will play sounds instead of iPad (iPad will feed in audio through USB ).

iKey is a pure controller it does not have sound banks.

It comes with massive sound libraries.

I do not know another MIDI controllers which can charge batteries on iPad.

(Roland solution)

2) Another option to use BT for MIDI and audio interface between a controller and iPad and an external changer.

(PX + BT Yamaha solution )

3) Use BT (external BT adapter like Yamaha) for MIDI interface.  Connect audio-out iPad to  PX audio-in and connect a charger to iPad 

Thanks, I was looking for an opinion of people owning GO, NP and Casio synths.

Very rational commentary. 

I was going to get GO(or NP) as a travel companion but instead, got IK Multimedia Keys 49.

It has returning policy like 2 months. I have tried every piece of the software(there is a lot of software to install for it) on Windows and iOS platforms and still returned it. The lagging on Windows is huge, the keybed is a joke.

At least now GO gets at the top of the list (side by side with Korg Kross 2).

3 hours ago, AlenK said:

 

Re 1 and 2, how do we know Casio's new action in the S1000 (and S3000) isn't just as quiet (unlike previous models!) and/or doesn't implement/simulate escapement?

Re 4, both the Casio and Roland have built-in speakers. The ones in the FP-10 are driven by 6W per side while those in the S1000 are 8W per side. Of course, that says nothing about how they actually sound.

Re 6, yes. MIDI over Bluetooth is something the FP-10 has that the S1000 does not. Score one for the FP-10.

 

I did not say anything about the noisiness of keys on S models. It is unknown and it is my major hope.

The keyboard on (previous model)PX is super noisy.

Escapement - You can build a quiet keyboard but it will be slow. The escapement is the feature which makes keys quick.

It repeats the design of acoustic keys.

I was thinking about escapement usability for some time and finally came to the conclusion that it is a useful feature. 

FP also has a progressive(scaled) hammer action.

Roland actually claims that RHA-4 keys are virtually silent. My experience tells me that it is actually so.

Casio does not say anything on this subject (besides slimness). Why is it important?

If S aims travel (not home) piano they can say so. In many cases in Japan people has less room at home than in the US I do understand from this point of view slimness is important.

Weight - when we talk about home digital piano the weight of it is the least significant factor(It is important for a manufacturer due to the cost of delivery). The stand is a key to success, it has to be very solid.( This is why I make stands for my pianos myself)

There is no advantage of one speaker's system over another.  I mentioned sound system because it was not obvious(for me) that 10 has built-in speakers.

To answer the original question.

I see three factors which may make a customer to choose FP over S.

1) The price ~20% lower

2) The silence of the action.

3) Brand name. (hate to say it) just may. For me, it is not a factor.

1 hour ago, AlenK said:

 

Do you mean GM2 rather than MIDI 2.0?  GM2 is specified for the FP-30 and above models but I don't see that on Roland's web site for the FP-10. Where did you see that?

You Are right general MIDI 2.

I assume that all FP line has it. however I cannot confirm for now 100% that is true for 10. ( Roland puts the GM2 logo on the back panel.But so far there are no good pictures of it as well as the manual.) 

Let’s assume that there is no GM2 on 10.

Overall GM2 does not give much to regular user. I would not be surprised if S also has general MIDI2. 

I did not start this thread.

However I was reviewing specs of FP 10 and found it very attractive.

1.Silent action. For home piano it is the killer feature.

2 Escapment. This feature actually repeats escapment on acoustic piano.

the purpose of the escapement is to return a key to the upper position  faster.

Also experienced  pionists use it as a threshold to get the softest sound.

It feels like the key provides a little bit higher resistance right before hammer hits the strings.

3 MIDI2.

4 Builtin speakers . Just an observation, when I saw it first time I thought it does not have any.

5 weight. Cannot care less. To me the length of the keyboard is more important than its weight.

I just need it fitting in the trunk. Do not want to care it on the back seat. As long as it 88 weight does not play any role.

( may be in Japan it is different)

6 MIDI Bluetooth with option to turn pages by pressing a pedal.

I cannot say supernatural is better or worst than AiR. They are just different.

5 minutes ago, Brad Saucier said:

Hmmm....  PX-SSS1000  PX-SSS3000   😎

SSS - seamless sound switching (see yamaha) ☄️

5 hours ago, oscar1 said:

There is no surprise why we admire these new privias. There are really three companies that have models in the low end piano market: yamaha with the P series. casio with the px. Roland has FP series. That's it, everyone else is aiming for the $1k and above.  I don't count korg and their sp models because those are build by medeli and I have my own opinion about medeli quality.

Everyone was recycling the same tech as long as they could for the low end piano market, but now casio radically decided to refresh it in a big style. So in fact unless yamaha come up with a radical new design for P and Roland decides to put new supernatural to their lowest models (not happening), the low end is now  captured by casio, because for the money it smokes out other lowest piano model out there with the features. Looking at this I would not be surprised if roland bails out from the bellow $1k market entirely.

FP-30 has  SuperNatural engine with PHA-4 keyboard.

21 minutes ago, Mike Martin said:

Let me make this clear.  Both the PX-S series and CDP series have a new action.  This is complete redesign from the ground up. 

 

While they are very similar mechanically the PX-S series provide additional technology over the CDP series which provides the unique scaling of all 88 keys.  

Thanks.

Actually, this is the greatest news I was hoping for. I do not care about slim action, but at least it gives a hope that new keys will be quieter.

Kawai does a great job in these terms. They provide pictures/videos and descriptions for every type of keys they make.

Mike, I always wanted to say hi to you personally !!!

Great videos!!!

35 minutes ago, Chandler Holloway said:

 

I would say they made an excellent decision in waiting that extra year or two. Most manufacturers I know are hesitant to update their MIDI specs right now because the new MIDI 2.0 standard is going to be rolled out in the near future. Better to stick with USB-MIDI (as that will almost certainly maintain backwards compatibility) and wait a bit to see if you can implement features that will capitalize on the added versatility of the new MIDI protocol. Why make small MIDI updates a focus right now when you can wait a bit and make huge advancements with the new spec?

 

https://djtechtools.com/2019/01/23/midi-2-0-is-coming-prototyping-of-new-generation-of-midi-devices-underway/

1

I can leave without BT MIDI. Just embedding MIDI Audio instead of BT MIDI changes(slightly) the purpose of the instrument.

16 minutes ago, Brad Saucier said:

 

Perhaps Casio engineers are pickier about latency than some other brands.  

Next year they will add BT-MIDI. What you will say then?

Actually, it is a good subject but I did not hear complains about latency on BT MIDI.

On 1/24/2019 at 6:39 AM, Jokeyman123 said:

I've played s cdp130 and was pleasantly surprised by the quality of the key action and sounds. These must be at least as good but the price is important as well as whether this is stripped down feature-wise. The 230 and 235 seem to be closer to my older px575 than to my px350, 560. But even the 575 actually has a much broader variety of features than the newer CDPs although the piano samples use the older concept without string resonance etc. Like the older MZ2000 which was never followed through until the new MZ-X. Still for a new piano I would expect more capabilities not less if I am upgrading. I like the compact design, but.....

I had CDP-130 for a year.

The keyboard does have a great feel, totally agree !!! 

The sound of the piano is so so.

Sustain is short.

No MIDI I/O.

Noisy keyboard.

Price and size are important. There are even more important if you will not play too often.

If you play every day these two factors should not have the highest priority.

At least that what I learned making my own mistakes. Quality and "extensibility" matter.

Chandler Holloway

"The new CDP-S models were all built on existing hardware under the hood, just with new slimmed down chassis and actions..."

What do you mean new action? 

Did they change the design of keys?

What does make you believe that there is new action in PX-S?

Yes, it is three separate questions

7 hours ago, Brad Saucier said:

 

Maybe because they are really good keyboards?  

I actually believe in it. There are great engineers and musicians stand behind every new Casio's product.

There is no doubt.

I have a lot of respect for all people who were working on these new products.

My point - we just did not try yet.

I assume nobody had a chance to try it so far.

3 hours ago, AlenK said:

 

 

Okay then, "aftertouch" is a pun. Perhaps one day I will understand your unique sense of humor. Speaking of touch, did anyone here at CMF visit NAMM and actually touch something?

Good question.

I aimed there last year. To my surprise, I've found out that is it not open for public.

You can gain a membership but it is not as simple as just paying a fee.