ct-s1 CT-S1 : External MIDI In and Tone Selection

[Groove On]

To send program changes to the CT-S1, I'm using Midi Pad 2 on the iPhone. Super simple and easy to setup. US$2.99 on the App Store.

https://midipadapp.com. I can also send program changes via MainStage (MacOS) and Camelot (iPad OS). All those apps work with wired USB or Bluetooth.

 

The main issue with sending program changes to the CT-S1 is that external MIDI is only sent to the 2nd sound engine. So if you want to use the local CT-S1 keyboard to play/hear the program change, you need to route the MIDI OUT and back to MIDI IN (where the 2nd sound engine is listening).

 

Apps like MainStage or Camelot can take the MIDI OUT from the CT-S1 keyboard and send it back to MIDI IN (so that the 2nd sound engine responds). This is pretty fast, but does add a bit of round-trip latency.

 

The fastest/easiest setup (and my current setup) is to use the WIDI UHost from CME. It connects directly to the CT-S1 via USB but can still receive program changes via Bluetooth. The UHost has a feature called "USB Soft Thru"; it takes the USB MIDI OUT from the CT-S1 keyboard and immediately routes it back to USB MIDI IN, so I can actually play the program changes and I don't need a full-blown computer to do it - a second advantage, it's very low latency. *** This is a feature that Casio should add to the WU-BT10 Bluetooth Adapter ***.

 

In the attached photos, I can send program changes via Bluetooth from the iPad to the CT-S1. When I play the keys, the WIDI UHost re-routes the USB MIDI OUT immediately back to USB MIDI IN so I can hear the program change from the 2nd sound engine.

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Groove On

[d. gauss]

do the corresponding buttons change on the casio when you do this?

[Groove On]

12 hours ago, d. gauss said:

do the corresponding buttons change on the casio when you do this?

 

No, the hardware controls on the CT-S1 do not change. Any external MIDI sent to the CT-S1 only affects the 2nd sound engine. The hardware controls on the CT-S1 are connected to the primary sound engine (Local Control); and the primary sound engine does not respond to MIDI IN.

 

If you want the hardware controls to change, you would have to send external MIDI to the primary sound engine (Local Control); but, AFAIK there is no way to do this on the CT-S1.

 

In other words, if you want to send MIDI to the CT-S1, you'll only be working with the 2nd sound engine - and none of that is connected to the onboard hardware controls.

Edited January 13, 2022 by Groove On

[d. gauss]

On 1/12/2022 at 10:11 PM, Groove On said:

 

 

In other words, if you want to send MIDI to the CT-S1, you'll only be working with the 2nd sound engine - and none of that is connected to the onboard hardware controls.

that's a bummer

[granitehead]

Hi,

 I have a CT-X800 with the exact same problem as the OP: I know this is likely not the right forum, but the problem is identical. I am sending midi to it from my DAW (Presonus Studio One).  I want Honky Tonk Piano (tone setting 011) but it will only play the default 001 with the midi from the USB.  I've read this thread a couple times and it's complete gobblety-gook to me. I have no idea what a "progam change message" is much less how to send one to the CT-X800. If I set the daw midi out to Chnl 11, the ct-x800 does play drums, but all 15 other channels just play Stage Piano 001. 

 

Here's what's super frustrating: I sucessfully did this about 4 years ago and forgot how I did it!! It was just dinking around with the casio controls; no sending special messages from the DAW...  I hate getting old....

 

TIA!

[Chandler Holloway]

28 minutes ago, granitehead said:

Hi,

 I have a CT-X800 with the exact same problem as the OP: I know this is likely not the right forum, but the problem is identical. I am sending midi to it from my DAW (Presonus Studio One).  I want Honky Tonk Piano (tone setting 011) but it will only play the default 001 with the midi from the USB.  I've read this thread a couple times and it's complete gobblety-gook to me. I have no idea what a "progam change message" is much less how to send one to the CT-X800. If I set the daw midi out to Chnl 11, the ct-x800 does play drums, but all 15 other channels just play Stage Piano 001. 

 

Here's what's super frustrating: I sucessfully did this about 4 years ago and forgot how I did it!! It was just dinking around with the casio controls; no sending special messages from the DAW...  I hate getting old....

 

TIA!

 

Program Change (PC) messages carry a value of 0-127, and this value correlates to a voice contained in the keyboard's bank of tones that will be called up whenever this message is encountered on a channel during playback. If a song starts playing using a grand piano tone on channel 6 and a PC message is sent telling it to switch to a trumpet two measures later, any notes played on channel 6 from that point onward will use the trumpet tone until a different PC message is encountered or the song ends. Sending the same Program Change message to a channel twice in a row will not have any effect on playback, as a new tone needs to be called up to actually change the voice assignment.

 

Of course, modern keyboards like the CT-X models can store far more than just 128 tones in the internal memory, so a MIDI sequence needs more than just a single PC message to properly access all of the available sounds. As such, a bank select message can be sent along with a Program Change to define a smaller subset (or bank) of tones that the accompanying PC message chooses from. Bank select messages are a Control Change (CC) message, separate from the PC message that actually carries out the voice switch itself. CC messages have two parts: a function number and a control value. A bank select CC message always has a function number of 0 (this tells the keyboard that this message will serve the function of switching banks). The control value of a bank select message is what controls the bank you're switching to; check the appendix to determine the bank (0 through 127) your desired tone is assigned to, and enter that number as the control value.

 

To use a real world example, the tones in your instrument’s memory are like files in a file cabinet with multiple drawers. Instead of considering all the files in the cabinet together as one massive sequential catalog, MIDI voice assignments narrow things down by first defining the bank (drawer) the sound belongs to and then pointing to a specific tone (file) within that bank to use. The following excerpt from the CT-X800’s appendix shows the PC and bank select values for the first 10 tones in memory.

 

 

Instruments within the same broad category usually share similar program change numbers. All ten of these CT-X piano tones are called up with a PC value of either 1 or 0, but the extra bank select value is what sets them apart. 

 

Keep in mind that the order in which you send these two messages is important to ensure that your voice change is executed properly. Receipt of the PC message is what actually triggers the voice change for a channel; sending a bank select value by itself will not have any effect on playback for that channel, but it will determine the group of tones a subsequent PC message points to. It’s best to send a bank select message at the exact same time as its accompanying Program Change, or even slightly before it if you want to be absolutely certain the tone generator will process them sequentially.

 

If you use a common DAW like Cubase, Sonar, Digital Performer or Pro Tools, you can also use Casio's officially released patch scripts. These let you select tones by their plain English names; they will automatically insert the appropriate program change and bank select messages where appropriate. Very convenient if you're programming MIDI tracks in a DAW.

 

Hope this helps! You'd be better off asking any future X800 questions over in the appropriate section of the forums, you'll get more specific help that way.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Chandler Holloway

[Casiokid]

https://www.midikits.net/midi_chan_changer/midi_chan_changer.htm

[Groove On]

11 hours ago, granitehead said:

... no idea what a "progam change message" is ...

 

Program Change
a program change is a technical way of saying "change the sound". when you press a button on your CT-X800 and it switches to an organ sound, you've sent a "program change" in other words, you changed the sound it was using. you can also send a program change with Presonus Studio One.  Look in your keyboard's manual for the program change codes for each sound. note - "program change" might be shortened to "PC".

 

Bank

you might also hear the word "bank" which is like a "category" for sounds. there might be a bank for piano sounds or a bank for organ sounds.

 

Here's the instructions for sending bank/program changes in Presonus Studio One.

https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/articles/210040493-MIDI-Bank-Program-Change-External-MIDI-Hardware-Devices-

 

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Groove On

[granitehead]

Thanks so much... very helpful!  Turns out there is a Program switch in Studio One assoc. with MIDI tracks. I turned this on with its Bank/Prog values set to 3/32:  worked great!  This is def. not what I did 4 yrs ago, but who cares...

Thanks again!