Shad0wfax

That's not what we are talking about here. The point is NOT that prices in USA are lower than in EU (although this is true in general terms, mostly due to the differences between VAT in EU countries and the corresponding sales tax in the States). The point is that, for some reason, Casio products in EU are significantly more expensive when compared to other brands, such as Yamaha. Yamaha keyboards are also subject to VAT and thay also come from non-EU countries, and the differences in price between USA-EU are much lower in Yamaha products than in Casio products.

The small difference in price between the CT-S500 and the CT-S1000V could also be seen as the CT-S500 is too expensive... Here in my country the CT-S500 is 40€ more expensive than the CT-X5000, the flagship model of the CT-X series, which has more features, especially regarding sound and style editing, and a much more powerful sequencer, better amplification... I agree that the CT-S1000V is a good deal, but when comparing the CT-S500 vs the Yamaha PSR-E473, things are not that clear.

Thank you, this is just the kind of information I'm interested in. I hope it would be also available for the CT-S400.

This is quite odd, as it makes the CT-S1000V very expensive, and the DGX-670 very cheap ;)

@pianokeyjoe You are absolutely right when pointing out that the final prices are in most part determined by "external" aspects such as import taxes, availability and so on. But the point is that Yamaha products, and of many other brands, are also produced in countries such as China, Indonesia or Phillipines, and they are subject to the very same import taxes of non-EU products, but for some reason, whereas Yamaha's prices are quite simmilar in EU and the USA, Casio products are significantly more expensive. Unless someone can give a rational and reasonable explanation for this, I'm assuming that this responds strictly to the company's marketing decisions, which of course are legitimate, but difficult to understand as long as this puts Casio in a clear disadvantage against the competition. It's not only that simmilar products of other brands might be cheaper, but that even the very same product in other countries are much cheaper (compare CT-S500's $379 in the USA to $465 in Europe, in the cheapest online stores; and E473's $369 in the USA to $419 in Europe). In fact, in most cases prices in Europe are a direct "conversion" from USD to EUR (that is, a product which costs $100 in the USA costs €100 in the EU, even though 1 Euro is about 1.12 dollars). As due to globlization and internet it's very easy to see those differences in price, this makes many people in Europe less prone to purchase Casio products.

He, me and almost everyone else in Europe. You can just ask people from Europe here in the forum. It is an objective fact that Casio products in Europe are significantly more expensive than in other parts of the world, and it's difficult to understand the reasons for this. For instance, you may like Yamaha products or not, but the prices of Yamaha keyboards are more or less the same both in Europe and in America. Dealers might be satisfied with Casio's prices but the main interest of dealers is getting as much profit as possible. If I have to spend my hard-earned money, I'd prefer getting a SX600, which is light years ahead in terms of flexibility and editability of sounds, styles and effects, than a CT-S500/1000V. Speaking of prices, in Europe the new Yamaha PSR-E473 costs 50€ less (or even more, depending on the store) than a CT-S500. In terms of sound quality, it's a matter of personal preference, but it is an objective fact that in the E473 you can modify the sounds and the effects of the styles, or assign DSP effects to the incoming midi data from a DAW, which is not possible in the Casio (or perhaps it's indeed possible, if Casio would provide us with de relevant sysex information. This leads me to another point. I contacted Casio Europe asking if they could give me a comprehensive midi/sysex implementation of my CT-S400, and they replied me literally "This specific information cannot be published", as if they wanted to prevent anyone to make a serious use of the keyboard in a DAW, and they had interest in keeping it as a musical toy, in the bad sense of the word. Anyway, the message was quite clear: if you want serious music tools, look elsewhere).

The Casio CT-S500/1000V and the Yamaha MX might be similar in format and even in price, but they could hardly be more different in concept. The MX is certainly not a workstation, but I wouldn't consider the Casio a workstation either, despite the 5-track recorder (cannot edit the tracks and many home keyboards have track recorders either). The MX is a full fledged synthesizer, in which all parameters of the synth engine and the effect section can be tweaked, edited and controlled either from the panel or at least via midi. In the Casio you have the presets and although the insert effects can be freely assigned (and tweaked) to the upper 1/2 and lower parts, those parts are not even controllabe via midi, so they cannot be used in a DAW, but only for realtime performing or for recording non-editable tracks on the board itself. The system effects also don't have any parameters to edit and all you can do is select the effect type and the send level for each channel. As a music creation tool in the studio, the MX is much more powerful and flexible. The Casio is fun, sounds good and can be great for playing live, but in the studio the MX is much more flexible and versatile.

The CT-S500/S1000V and the Yamaha MX might be simmilar in size and price, but they are really very different machines. The Casios are conceived for 'plug and play', with speakers, accompaniments, almost no sound editing capabilities, etc. while the MX is a synthesizer with full editing capabilites (from the oscillator/waveform level), no accompaniment (other than some rythm patterns/arpeggios), no speakers, full access to 16 midi channels, etc. That is not to say that in terms of sound quality they are comparable, as the AiX sound source is very good, but the MX is clearly more intended to be used in a studio setup or for playing live with other musicians (e.g. instant access to 16 channels makes it very easy to change sounds on the fly in a song), while the CT-S is more for entertainment/rehearsal/sketching up ideas for futther developing in the studio.

Hi krunchr, I think that all your concerns/criticisms are a consequence of the very conception of the Casiotone lineup, which, in a simmilar way as the Yamaha's PSR-E series, is intended to provide affordable, simple, fun and easy-to-use keyboards, albeit with pretty good sound quality, but in no way professional or studio-like products, as they have important limitations in aspects that are so basic for "serious" users. Even though, they're still very useful for rehearsals or for sketching up ideas, and obviously for just having fun 1) Yes, AFAIK both in the Casiotone and in the PSR-E series accompaniments aren't editable at all, and this includes the inablity to remap timbres, mute tracks, edit panning/effects/volume of each track and so on. You cannot either create new rythms and accompaniments from the keyboard itself, although you can load new rythms. 2) I don't own neither a CT-S1000V nor a CT-S500 (I've got a CT-S400), but it's probably true that you can't set effect send levels directly from the menu. At least in the S400, you can select the reverb/chorus type but not the send level for each channel. You have to use midi CC 91 and 93, but, as an another silly limitation, keyboard channels (upper 1/2 and lower) are not controllable via midi, so there is no way to set the effect send level for those channels. In the PSR-E series keyboard channels aren't either midi controllable, but at least you can set the effect send level from the menu. 3) I just don't know what kind of software or file format are used for user rythms, but probably other people in the forum will know better. 4) See the reply to 2). You can select the effect type but not the parameters or even the send levels. The send levels can be set via midi but this does not affect to the keyboard channels, at least in the CT-S400 (don't know about the CT-S1000V, but probably it will be the same). What I like most from the CT-S is the format (light and compact, possibility of batteries...) and the sound quality of the AiX engine, very good for the money. But they can be very frustating when trying to use them in the studio as a "serious" music creation tool. If someone can only invest in one keyboard and the budget is limited, I'd recommend trying to get a low-end Yamaha PSR-S or PSR-SX or a Korg PA. They are far more flexible and capable as music creation tools, and honestly, the also sound better. Also, for some strange reason, Casio keyboards in Europe are significantly more expensive than in other regions/countries (that's not the case with Yamaha). For instance, while in the US you can get a CT-S1000V for about $450 (around 395 Euro), in Europe it costs about 475 Euro (around $540). Considering that you can get a PSR-SX600 for just a bit over 600 Euro, there’s little point in investing nearly 500 Euro in the CT-S. At this point, the CT-400, which costs in Europe about 230 Euro, makes more sense as a rehearsal/fun keyboard.

Technically, a vocoder can use human voice as a signal input or any other signal, such a synthesizer waveform. But it's true that the S1000V is not a vocoder. The vocoder processes an input signal to generate the "synthetic" final sound, whereas in the S1000V all the process is synthetic. As far as I've seen, the final results are quite simmilar, only that a vocoder is easier to use . Personally I don't have interest in the S1000V but I do have it in the S500. It seems to me that is a very interesting product with a killer value for money. If I want to use a vocoder, I already own a Montage and a Genos. Regarding the topic, it's obvious that calling it S1000V instead of S500V it's a marketing strategy and it's perhaps not a bad one. It gives the impression that it's a "superior" product although the voice synthesizer is the only relevant difference.

Well, not really. All you can do from the panel is to select the type of reverb and chorus, but not the amount (send level) for each channel. The only way to to that is by using midi CC commands 91 and 93, respectively. As the keyboard channels are not MIDI controllable, there's no way to set the amount of chorus and reverb for upper 1/2 and lower, which is a serious limitation.

Hi everyone, I’ve recently bought a Casio CT-S400 keyboard, so I’ve had the opportunity to personally compare it against the Yamaha PSR-E373, which I purchased about year ago. Both of them are good products (I’d say excellent, considering their price tag), and show that we are living good times regarding entry level keyboards, as they have sounds and specs which were unthinkable of just a few years ago for only about $200. I think that both are well worth the price, with an outstanding value for money, and you cannot go wrong with any of them. But which of them could be considered as the best one? In order to make a comparison and giving my opinions, I’m going to highlight what I consider the good and the bad (or not-so-good) points of each model. YAMAHA PSR-E373 Good points: · - The price, at least in Europe, is slightly cheaper than the Casio’s. Not a deal breaker unless your budget is really tight. · - I like very much the keybed. It does not feel cheap; in fact, it’s better than those of some of the much more expensive keyboards that I’ve played. The matte finish of the black keys is a nice touch, too. · - The acoustic piano sound is really good for this price category. It is the same as the one found in the PSR-SX600 or the Tyros 3, only to mention two much more expensive models from Yamaha. It sounds rich, full and expressive, and you have to spend much more money if you want to get a better piano sound from the same brand. · -Also, some of the SA-lite sounds, such as the acoustic guitars and the flute, are great, as they’ve been inherited from high-end keyboards such as the first series of Tyros keyboards. Nevertheless, not all SA-lite sounds are excellent or even good, contrary to what could be expected (for instance, I consider the sax or the strings sounds as rather poor). -The inclusion of a USB midi and audio interface is great, as it is the standard USB port connector (not the tiny, flimsy and rather dated -as the trend is now USB type C)- micro-USB port). You can use the keyboard as a controller for software synths. Kudos also for using a standard size jack for headphones/audio output. To have independent L/R connectors would be incredible in this price point, but at least at this moment this feature is not present in any model. - The DSP FX section is nice and it’s good that you can assign any effect to any sound, although it’s not possible to configure the effect’s parameters (such as the level of distortion, for example). At least, though, the effects are not ‘hardwired’ to the sound. Weak points: · - In theory, the keyboard has over 600 different sounds, but actually most of them are the crappy XGLite sounds, which have no comparison in terms of quality to ‘panel’ sounds. The total number of sounds is rather fictitious as in fact there are about 240 really useable sounds. · - For some reason, despite the keyboard responds to 16 midi channels, the keyboard sounds (upper 1, upper 2 and lower) are not controllable via MIDI. It seems that this ‘feature’ is common to all PSR-E series, and it’s a shame, as controlling keyboard’s sounds through MIDI would be very useful, for instance to send program change messages to select different sounds according to different parts of a song, or for controlling modulation, expression, filter, etc. in real time while performing on the keyboard. This limitation also implies that you cannot assign DSP effects to any midi channel, as those are reserved for the keyboard sounds. · - It does not have a USB ‘to device’ connector for storing and recalling styles, registrations or songs. · - No pitch bend wheel (let alone modulation), which would provide more flexibility when performing, especially on certain types of sounds. · - The LCD screen looks dated, as it’s very similar to previous models from several years ago. CASIO CT-S400 Good points: · - I love the form factor: slim, light, compact, easily transportable, and its clean lines are nice and elegant. · - I regard the speakers’ sound to be slightly better than Yamaha’s, which is a great achievement considering that they are significantly smaller. · - The quantity and quality of the sounds. On paper, there are less sounds (600 vs 622 in the Yamaha), but in general terms, all sounds in the Casio are of a similar quality (even the GM ones, which is remarkable, as they tend to be poor in all brands), whereas over 300 sounds in the Yamaha are the XGLite rubbish. The AiX sound source deserves praise, as for this price level it provides very good sounds. Certainly, there are better sounds out there in more expensive keyboards, and some of the sounds are better in the E373, but the price-to-quality ratio is amazing. The acoustic piano is very good (again, for the price), and although I wouldn’t consider it superior to Yamaha’s (it’s just different), there are many more to choose from. The E373 has one very good piano sound but the rest of the acoustic pianos are so-so. If you pay attention, you can detect the sample loops more easily in the Casio than in the Yamaha, but this is negligible when playing. The drums are very good are more varied in the Casio also, and the acoustic sets sound more… ‘acoustic’ 😉. Some of the SFX sound even better than their equivalents on the Yamaha Genos… Another great point is the inclusion of the ‘versatile’ sounds (the equivalent to Yamaha’s ‘mega-voices’, which are absent in the PSR-E series), although the versatile brass sounds a bit cheesy (but brass sounds only sound good in very expensive keyboards, anyway). · - The LCD screen is clearly superior, as the E373’s pales in comparison. · - It has a pitch bend wheel, that, contrary to what the user manual states, it also transmits MIDI data 😊, so it’s perfect for using the CT-S400 as a controller also. · - It includes not only a USB “to host”, but also a USB terminal “to device” (Yamaha should learn from that 😉). · - There are many more different chord fingering modes than in the E373. · - I like also the fact that you can trigger a fill-in without changing the variation in the accompaniment. In the Yamaha a fill-in automatically activates a variation change, and to avoid that you have to push two buttons. Weak points: · - The price is slightly higher (at least in Europe). · - Although I like the aesthetics of the keys, with their textured and matte finish, the touch feels quite springy and spongy. I specially dislike the fact that there is a big difference in pressure between the bottom and the top of the keys. If you have to play a key near to its top, it feels much stiffer. This is a common problem in light, synth-like keybeds, but it’s more evident in the Casio than in the Yamaha. · - Again, keyboard sounds (upper 1/2 and lower) are not controllable via MIDI (as in PSR-E series), with all that this implies. · - There are no assignable FX, as they are “hardwired” to the presets, but moreover, you cannot even set the reverb/chorus levels from the panel (only through midi CC data, so it’s not possible to change those levels for upper 1/2 and lower). · - There seems to be not just one, but at least two DSP units in this keyboard. If you listen for instance to some of the accompaniments of the “rock” section, you can hear a DSP distorted guitar, while you can select at the same time a keyboard sound with a built-in DSP effect. But when you use the CT-S400 as a sound generator through MIDI, there is no way to assign DSP effects to any of the 16 channels. I requested the sysex information to Casio in order to know more about the synthesis engine but they say that it’s not available (more likely they do not want to share it for some reason). It seems as if Casio (also Yamaha, to some extent) wanted to prevent any “serious” use of the keyboard for music production. · - Instead of a normal USB port for MIDI, they’ve used the flimsy and outdated micro-USB port. There is no built-in audio interface, also. · - I don’t like at all mini jack ports for audio output, or even for headphones. Perhaps it’s too much to ask for a proper pair of line out jacks, but at least use a normal stereo jack, please. · - The CT-S400 has a quite odd behaviour in sounds with key off samples (e.g., some harpsichords and clavis) when using damper. The key off sound is always triggered when the key is released regardless the status of the damper pedal, so you can hear the “click” sound of a harpsichord’s key being released, while the sound is still sustained because the sustain pedal is being used. · - The drum sounds do not seem to respond to filter/resonance messages, or at least I haven’t been able to do it through their respective MIDI CC commands. In the Yamaha they do respond, just like any other sounds. In sum, both models are excellent for the price, despite their problems and limitations. We must keep in mind that these are cheap keyboards not intended for “professional” use. Nonetheless, if I had to choose only one, IMHO the Casio CT-S400 is slightly better and it would be my choice. I attach to this post two versions (one for each model) of an original song of mine, so you can hear the differences and make your own opinion. David Deepest_Thoughts_E373.mp3 DeepestThoughtsS400.mp3

Despite Casio hasn’t unveiled the details yet, nor the manual, it seems that the new Casiotone series is based on the AHL chip. And taking into account the info and specs that Casio has offered, the CT-S300 seems to me suspiciously similar to the CTK 3500 model: both have 400 tones, 48-note polyphony, AHL sound chip, sensitive keyboard and pitch bend wheel, usb connection, audio in, sustain pedal jack… I’d bet that it’s basically a CTK-3500 re-packaged in a more compact and portable form factor. That would be not bad per se, as the CTK sounds pretty good and offers excellent value for money (here in Spain it costs around 150 euro), and this would let Casio keep the costs down to the max while offering a very interesting product. BUT… the bad news is that, contrary to the US, here in Europe the new Casiotone series has been announced at a very high prices; the S300 model is offered (only reserve at this moment) at nearly 200 euro or even more, depending on the store. This makes absolutely no sense if you can get a CTK 3500 for less and it's already a very compact and light model. What is even worse, is that you can buy a CT-X700, with AiX thecnology, for less than a CT-S300!! This is absurd. I hope that retailers change this policy when the Casiotones are available.

In general terms, most of the sounds are far better on the MODX - They are the same as in the Montage series, so we're talking about the top-of-the-line of the latest generation of Yamaha's synths. I think it's not fair to compare the MZ-X to the MODX, as the latter is more recent and expensive. But the MZ-X is a great balance between sound quality, features and price, and probably the best product in its class. The MODX 6/7 has a semi-weighted keyboard with a pretty good action for my taste. No aftertouch, though :(. It seems that nowadays only the very expensive high-end keyboards have this feature. Basic sound tweaking (envelopes, filter/resonance, EQ, effect send...) is dead easy using the rotary knobs. In general terms all operations are easy using the big touch screen, although the synth as so many features and parameters that you really need to read the manual to get used to the user interface. Once you've got it, all operations are pretty straightforward. I don't think than making 88-key weighted synths is ridiculous. Many keyboard players have been trained as classical pianists and quite a lot (including myself) prefer the weighted action, even for playing other kind of sounds rather than acoustic piano. I find myself playing most of times all my synths from my 88-key weighted controller, and sincerely I prefer weighted action for almost all sounds (except for tonewheel organs, I admit). Light action keyboards have some other advantages such as a smaller size, less weight and better portability, but I like the feeling of the "weight" of the keys. And well-trained pianists (not my case, I'm afraid) are capable of playing very fast passages without the need of switching to a light action keybed. Personally, whilst I like playing almost all kind of sounds with a weighted keyboard, I cannot stand playing actoustic piano sounds in a synth-action keybed (I find it very artificial and unpleasant). You're pretty right, on the other hand, when stating that many low- and mid-level 88-key synths haven't good a good keyboard action. I'd rather had bought a MODX 8 instead of a MODX 6 if it wasn't for the Yamaha's GHS action, which I don't like at all. But a notable exception is the Juno DS-88, for example, which has a very good (to my taste) action. But at the end of the day, it's great that companies offer the same model in 61, 73/76 and 88 key versions. I wouldn't consider "built-in speakers" and "arranger functions" as "advantages", considering that we are not talking of the same kind of products. The MODX is not an arranger, so speakers and auto-accompaniments are quite out of place here. I think it's a bit like saying that a Ford Fiesta is better than a Ferrari because it has 5 seats instead of only two. They're simply different kind of beasts. I personally love the speakers of my MZ-300, but I don't consider the lacking of speakers of my MODX as a drawback or a problem. And even in the arranger "realm", many of highest-end keyboards also lack speakers or built-in amplification (such as the Yamaha Tyros/Genos or the Korg PA4X). That said, I'd love to see a new model of the MZ-X series, in both 61 and 76 (and even 88) key versions.

Well, that's not a keyboard technical limitation, but simply a decision of making faithful organ emulations. If you want to emulate a classic organ's sound (like a Hammond B3, for instance), then using velocity sensitivity for controlling the sound's dynamics (i.e. volume) is simply out of place. Fortunately, sound editing capabilities in the MZ-X series are very good (much better than most other models of their price range) and you can edit the organ sounds to make them respond to velocity if you like. Each brand has its own style regarding the user interface of their products, and this implies some kind of learning curve. Personally I find the color touchscreen of my MZ-X300 very clear and easy to use, and overall I feel that it's easier to use, than, say, my Yamaha MODX 6. Casio did a good job with the MZ-X series, but sadly it seems that it wasn't very succesful from a commercial point of view and it's unlikely that they will develop simmilar products, at least in the near future. From my personal point of view they were a bit overpriced when released (not many people would invest on a MZ-X500 when you could get a PSR-S750/770 for about the same price, for example), but I was lucky enought to get a brand new MZ-X300 for only 300 euro, and for this price there is nothing remotely comparable!