BrettM
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File Name: Won't Get Fooled This Time
File Submitter: Brett M
File Submitted: 31 Mar 2014
File Category: XW-P1
Here is my second attempt at the "Won't Get Fooled Again" organ. It follows on from an XW-P1 discussion called "Arpeggios !" and this time I do use the arpeggiator, with only two steps, to give the basic pulse rhythm. It's based on my previous "Fooled Again" upload, so there is a solo-synth tone to create the slow filter sweep, a performance so chords can be played and now an arpeggiation as well. The arpeggiator has taken over the job of LFO2, so the low frequency clunking that was evident in the previous version as the two LFOs fought over the filter is now gone. You can tweak the total filter parameters in the solo synth to alter the sweep and change the tempo to alter the speed of the pulse. As before, this was done on a G1, so make sure a full drawbar is assigned to zone 2 of the performance to make it work on a P1.
I've just updated the performance to bring the tempo closer to the actual song. Assignable knob 1 and 2 are now set to control the total filter cutoff and resonance respectively.
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Alen,
I think I may have offended you, and if so I'm very sorry. Post #22 was not written in a sarcastic tone of voice. I sincerely acknowledge your experience and contributions vis-a-vis my own slow picking through the manual. I've learnt more from your posts on this forum than I ever would just reading the manual and I hope that will continue.
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Well Alen, you've got a lot more experience than I have. I'm just a swot who reads manuals carefully. Even manuals that most people hate.
Ted did spell it out well, and now that he's climbing under the hood with MIDI he may come up with some new things yet. I've got to read a MIDI manual before I'll be able to do that.
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Synthesist for me too. The reason I prefer synthesizers over keyboards is because synthesizers have that long row of black and white buttons along the front. These can sometimes be very useful for certain effects, like changing the pitch of oscillators.
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Alen,
I think I can claim a bit more involvement than merely asking the right question. I initially noticed the sliders worked in virtual controller edit mode while trying to create a cross fader on a G1 prior to posting the question, see post #6. It wasn't just a wild card thrown out for someone to catch. This is something that has been missed in previous discussions of virtual controllers and sliders on this forum, e.g.:
http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/4807-how-to-use-the-virtual-control/
and
http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/4962-editing-solo-synth-with-sliders/
I've also pointed out some of the implications of this for G1 and P1 users, see post #15; and I still think we haven't got to the bottom of it. I don't think the answer has been found yet. Once we think we've found the answer, we stop experimenting.
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Not much activity on the harmonica front lately. I've already posted my entry, but if I were trying to extend it I would try to work on the pitch bend. The pitch bend wheel is the obvious candidate, but I think it's depth would need to be reduced and maybe a slight filter close combined with the bend.
In my submission, I tried to introduce a filter close via the touch sensitive keyboard, and although it animates the sound somewhat, I don't think it's realistic. I also tried to add a second harmonica note to simulate a player's breath bleeding across two holes but I set them a note apart whereas on a real harmonica I think they are often further apart. This seemed to capture some of the complex harmonics of an harmonica. I also tried to make the second note velocity sensitive so, if you played lightly you could sound a single hole, whereas if you played hard you would start hearing the other note, but I think this effect could be improved upon. I suppose I should really learn how to play harmonica.
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Thanks Brad,
I've noticed that there is some low frequency clunking going on as the two LFOs fight over the filter. PT may have done it with two filters in series. The LFOs can be separated on the solo synth by setting LFO2 to modulate the PCM1 amp rather than the filter, but this does not carry over to the performance. I suppose in the performance one could just set up the filter sweep and play eighth note chords.
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I've just added my attempt to the P1 download area. Don't automatically reach for a hex layer for vintage sounds. They didn't have 'em in them days.
Mike Martin and BradMZ have done some work on Baba O'Reilly on the PX-5S, so they may have some ideas.
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File Name: Fooled Again
File Submitter: Brett M
File Submitted: 26 Mar 2014
File Category: XW-P1
My attempt at Fooled Again using PCM organ + LFO1 controlling the slow filter sweep and LFO2 pulsing the filter. It's tricky to keep the two LFOs in phase.
This was done on a G1 so you may have to set PCM1 to an organ to get it working on a P1. I just use a full drawbar.
For full polyphony there is a performance that uses the above solo synth in zone 1 and runs zone 2 through zone 1. Set zone 2 to an organ and play chords.
Meet the new boss.
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There doesn't seem to be any way to permanently save the slider assignment so I'm tending to agree with Brad - the sliders work as sources only while in virtual controller edit mode. Back out even one step and the sliders revert to their default behaviour. This is a solo synth effect, it won't carry over to a performance . You can't access virtual controller edit mode from within a performance. You have to be in tone mode, editing the solo synth tone. The depths and destinations are saved however, so you can set these and go back to virtual controller edit mode any time you like and have your sliders working again.
Ted, I tried your process and got the same results. But you don't have to have CC09 selected as the source. The sliders work while in edit mode, even when the source is set to off. Which is another reason why I think this is edit mode only behaviour. When you think about it, given the host of different uses for the sliders already, if Casio allowed the sliders to be reassigned, people would be tying their XWs up into all sorts of knots.
But this is not all bad, it does mean we can have eight assignable virtual slider controllers so long as we stay in edit mode, and this opens up many interesting possibilities. G1 owners, like me, can access different oscillators without having to select them with the (2) switches (the drawbar switches on the P1). This is what led me to discover this behaviour in the first place: in solo synth mode on the P1 you can adjust oscillator levels across the oscillators so you can do a cross fade by running one slider up and the other slider down. Not so on a G1 where, although the sliders can access many more solo synth parameters, you have to work with one oscillator at a time. Now you don't. And a cross fade with +ve depth on one slider and -ve depth on the other is a much better way to do it, available on both models.
Although it may seem a bit clunky, I can imagine performing in virtual edit mode, just so you can create some interesting slider effects.
This behaviour may also be very useful to P1 owners. It makes a P1 more like a G1. (These synths are closely related. Just as you can coax a multiple layer mode and a drawbar organ out of a G1, you can also coax G1-like behaviour out of a P1). P1 owners can now set up the sliders to access many of the solo synth parameters (destinations), just like on a G1. I have found this extremely powerful, especially for creating envelopes. If I had a P1, I would now save a few "blank" solo synths with various envelope and other destinations set up to serve as editing areas for tweaking other tones I was working on. E.g., work out the envelope you want in one of the "blank" tones, then copy the settings across to the main tone I was interested in. There may be other useful ways to exploit this new slider behaviour.
But this still does not explain the mysterious quote on page E-29.
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As an aside, a silent phrase sequence that prerecords controller movement might be another way to create the cross fade I'm after, but I would be interested in getting to the bottom of the slider question.
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Alen, I was hoping you especially would know the answer to this one.
What I was trying to do was set up a cross fader between two blocks of the solo synth, say synth1 to pcm1, so I could have one sound seamlessly morph into another. I would normally reach for the knobs to assign volume adjustments, but playing the keyboard and trying to twiddle two knobs simultaneously is difficult. But two adjacent sliders, one with +ve depth, the other with -ve depth, with the appropriate amp volumes set as the destinations is tailor made for the job. And it works, so long as I am in block 10, i.e., VirtualCtrl>Enter. So the sliders do more than just select between virtual controllers in edit mode. But as soon as I exit back one step, the sliders revert to their default usage. This is what Ted has experienced too, I think. I've been trying this with sliders 7 and 8, with their source parameter showing as "off". So I though I must not have the right CC or whatever showing in the source, hence my question at the start of the post - how do I make a slider itself a permanent source of a virtual controller? If this is possible, it means we will have eight assignable sliders in addition to the four assignable knobs. And the cryptic statement on page E-29 suggests it might be possible.
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Page E-29 of the manual says "Controllers are numbered 1 though 8, and are assigned to the (5) sliders (1/9 through 8/16)". This suggests that the sliders are related to virtual controllers in some way. But how?
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I've just posted my submission. It depends on the touch sensitive keyboard and the mod wheel.
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File Name: Bretharp
File Submitter: Brett M
File Submitted: 19 Mar 2014
File Category: XW-P1
Here is my submission to the harmonica challenge. Solo synth tone created on G1. The PCM wave number may need to be changed to 0152 to get it to work on a P1.
Version 2.0, updated following my suggestions in http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/5550-harmonica-challenge/
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There must be a easier way, and there is. After much experimenting I've realised that we can use nine splits across two user waves to hold the basic tone for each drawbar and just edit the volumes of each split to create the desired registration. The only downside is that we don't get to play with the sliders. I've uploaded two user waves and a performance that does this in the download section.
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File Name: G1 Drawbar Pack
File Submitter: Brett M
File Submitted: 19 Mar 2014
File Category: XW-G1
After experimenting with the nona-layer method I posted in the G1 area a while back, I now realise there is an easier way to create a complete drawbar organ on the G1: save the nine basic drawbar tones as splits across two user waves. Each split corresponds to one drawbar. Then all you have to do is edit the volume of each split to create the desired registration. Don't forget to change the volumes in increments of 16 if you want true drawbar authenticity, although finer adjustments are possible. The splits are constructed as follows:
File/Split Note played Drawbar
DBL88888 Split 1 C3 16'
DBL88888 Split 2 G4 5 1/3'
DBL88888 Split 3 C4 8'
DBL88888 Split 4 C5 4'
DBL88888 Split 5 G5 2 2/3'
DBH8888 Split 1 C6 2'
DBH8888 Split 2 E6 1 3/5'
DBH8888 Split 3 G6 1 1/3'
DBH8888 Split 4 C7 1'
Also included in the pack is a performance which ties it all together, including the 2nd and 3rd percussion in zones 3 and 4. Knob 1 adjusts the volume of zone 3 and thus switches 2nd percussion on or off and increases it's volume in the mix. Ditto for knob 2 and 3rd percussion. Knob 3 controls the overdrive gain of the rotary speaker and knob 4 controls its speed.
It uses up two user waves, but this is a small price to pay for a fully functional drawbar organ. Save the files to a card until needed.
The main limitation of this set up is that it chews up the polyphony pretty fast because we're mixing the drawbar sound in real time. One note on the keyboard activates 11 tones. A triad uses 33! If this causes a problem, just record a single note, say C4, in the sampler and you're back in business. This is also a good way to store specific registrations that you may want to reuse. Enjoy!
=== Version 2.0 ===
I noticed some distortion when playing triads in version 1.0 of the organ, which I put down to exceeding the polyphony, but now realise that it was just straight out clipping. So version 2.0 has the same files with the volumes of each split reduced from 127 to 80. This should eliminate any distortion and also makes it easier to create standard registrations using stop increments of 10 rather than 16, you may have to turn up the volume a bit more however. When some of the drawbars (splits) are "pushed in" (turned down), it may be possible to increase the volumes of the others without experiencing clipping.
=== Version 3.0 ===
I have since realised that the pitch shifter can shift up two octaves, but can shift down many more, so I've raised everything by an octave. Thus all the notes in the table above are an octave higher. This allows the organ to play from C7 down which makes it much more playable. Previously the notes repeated after C6. I've also improved the looping in the splits.
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Thanks for that information Mike. I've found an article on Enhancers which gels with what you've said: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan00/articles/enhancer.htm The Enhancer tries to boost high, or low, frequencies using phase shifting whereas EQ tries to do the same thing using narrow band amplification. The end result is pretty similar.
If, as AlenK has suggested, System Reverb Type 1 is room reverb and System Reverb Type 2 is hall reverb, Reflection is like a very small room. In my experiments I think System Reverb can swamp Reflections, so Reflection should be combined with System Reverb very carefully, if at all.
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The manual is very concise, but as my experience grows I've started to see that as a blessing. I especially like the basic functional arrangement in terms of the steps needed to complete each task, although a bit of redundancy occasionally would make it easier to follow. There is a bit too much cross referencing to similar steps elsewhere in the manual which means I have to shuffle pages more than I would like. I also like the menu tables which describe each parameter, although some of them could give a bit more detail. Definitions of things like Reverb Type 1 and Reverb Type 2 and Reflection Types 1 to 8 would be a big help. Perhaps a glossary is in order. I would also like more information about the units used for some of the parameters. Increments in octaves, semitones, etc. are easy to understand; but what is the unit used for the time-based envelope settings or the various applications of depth? Apart from that, I don't think it's too bad. I prefer a shorter manual to a long winded tome I'd never get through.
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One last thing, in the performance, set Controller>Touch to Off because organs don't have touch sensitive keyboards.
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I understand most of the DSPs, but I can't quite get my head around these two.
Enhancer
What does it do? What does "enhance the signal's profile" mean?
Reflection
Is it a type of reverb? Does it work in conjunction with the system reverb? What are reflection types 1 to 8?
When would you use either of them?
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It may not be as instantly accessible as the drawbar organ on the P1, but it is possible to recreate a complete drawbar organ on the G1; going way beyond the dozen or so PCM organ presets. To do this, we need to utilize the G1's sound creation resources, especially the sampler and the nona-layer1, and go back to first principles.
The basic building block of a drawbar tone is a clean sine wave. Unfortunately the only PCM sine preset, P268, has vibrato, so we have to use the sampler to extract a clean sine from the solo synth. Alternatively the recorder, P209, with cutoff zeroed, could be used; but if you want complete authenticity, sample a sine wave instead. Flutes also provide good approximations to sine waves; but unlike P209, P208 contains considerably more modulation. I usually sample note C5, taking care to set the looping point to minimize pops.
Then use the mixer to assign the clean sine to all nine parts of the nona-layer. Next comes the most important bit, playing the appropriate note at step one of parts 8 to 16 of the step sequencer to give the appropriate harmonic for each drawbar. This is done using step sequencer step edit.
With middle C, C4, as the "fundamental"2, the nine parts of the step sequencer should be configured as follows.
Step sequencer part | Note to play at step one | Drawbar
8 | C3 | 16'
9 | G4 | 5 1/3'
10 | C4 | 8'
11 | C5 | 4'
12 | G5 | 2 2/3'
13 | C6 | 2'
14 | E6 | 1 3/5'
15 | G6 | 1 1/3'
16 | C7 | 1'
Take care to only change step one of each track and make sure all the velocities are identical. Also ensure that all of the tied steps in the nona-layer are intact. It is evident from the above table that the harmonics span four octaves; which is why we sampled C5 instead of C4, even though C4 is the "fundamental". The sampler will only pitch shift +/- 2 octaves. Save this as a user wave tone with original key set to C4.
Now it's time to create a drawbar registration, say 88 5324 588. This can be done in the mixer by using the sliders to set the volume of each part. Although the G1 has 128 distinct volume levels, real drawbars only have eight stops; so to be truly authentic, we need to adjust the volumes in increments of 16. (On the other hand, why not experiment with fractional stops?) To create 88 5324 588, we would set the volume of part 8 to 127, part 9 to 127, part 10 to 80, part 11 to 48, part 12 to 32, part 13 to 64, part 14 to 80 and parts 15 and 16 to 127.
Now start the step sequencer. Voila, you have just created a drawbar organ tone! Record a few beats of this in the sampler, taking care to avoid recording through the step sequence restart. Again, edit the loop points of the sample to minimize pops.
Now we've got something playable, but we're still not quite done. Although we have created the desired registration, a real drawbar organ has a number of additional characteristics, like note-on percussion and a Leslie speaker. While the Leslie can obviously be implemented by applying the rotary speaker DSP, the best way to implement percussion is in performance mode.
Create a new performance with the above sampled drawbar registration in zone 1. Now set zones 2 and 3 to P280, Sequenced Sine, which gives a nice quick pulse. Zone 2 implements the second harmonic percussion, so set the octave shift parameter for zone 2 to +1. Zone 3 implements the third harmonic percussion, which is 19 semitones above the "fundamental", so set the octave shift parameter for zone 3 to +1 and the transpose parameter to +7. The percussion should not overpower the main tone, so set the volumes of zones 2 and 3 to about 30. Switching zones 2 or 3 on and off switches the relevant percussion on and off as required.
While we're at it why not set zone 4 to the original sine wave? Then if we're using a drawbar registration of 88 8000 000, say, and want to play 88 8000 005 instead, all we need to do is activate zone 4, set its octave shift to +2 and volume to 80 without having to go though the full tone creation process.
To facilitate realtime play, zones 2 and 3 can be toggled in the mixer, or via the assignable knobs. The other two assignable knobs can be configured to operate the rotary speaker – on/off, fast/slow. Vibrato is achieved via the standard modulation wheel.
Now we're really ready to play. If I remember my combinatorics correctly a standard drawbar organ has 99 = 387,420,489 possible registrations. The G1 drawbar, with 128 volume levels to choose from, has 1289 = 9,223,372,036,854,780,000 registrations. That's over nine billion billion possibilities.
Limitations
Can't change the drawbars on the fly, although you could fill the sampler with up to 50 drawbar registrations and switch between them in real time.
Drawbar organ purists may point out that the percussion should only trigger after all keys are up. With a bit more effort this effect can be implemented via solo synth legato mode.
Other possibilities
Instead of using the nona-layer to create the basic drawbar tone, the appropriate nine notes at their required volumes could be layered directly into the sampler via overdubbing.
Many popular drawbar registrations are of the form 88 8842 000, so an LPF ought to be able to recreate them subtractively from the full drawbar 88 8888 888, P140, although you won't know exactly what you're getting. Filtering the other PCM organs also offers interesting possibilities.
Instead of using a clean sine as the basic building block, why not try a completely different tone entirely; even something from the solo synth – subtractive synthesis meets additive synthesis! They certainly don't cancel each other out.
1. I've described how to set up the nona-layer in the General Discussion area.
2. This is usage of the term fundamental as found in discussions of drawbar organs, as opposed to the fundamental frequency of the overall tone which is given by the first drawbar.
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You're right Alen, my usage of "tracks" and "parts" was confusing. I've re-edited my original post to hopefully make it clearer. "Part" is probably the best word because they are what you select with the +/- Part buttons, buttons 9 in the manuals.
And you're also right about the nona-layer being monophonic. It can't be used to play chords on the keyshift keyboard, although you could set up chords across the layers. Another limitation is that, even monophonically, the same key pressed twice doesn't register. Perhaps it is more of a sonic scratch pad with which to experiment with different tonal mixtures than a useful instrument in its own right.
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File Name: Nona-layer demo
File Submitter: Brett M
File Submitted: 06 Mar 2014
File Category: XW-G1
A user step sequence that gives the basic nona-layer set up, as described in the General Discussion area. Uploaded as a zip file because the system will not accept .zss files.
I've just thrown together some tones here, but I would be interested in hearing about better combinations.
I'd particularly like to know how closely a nona-layer can emulate a hex layer.
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Arpeggios !
in XW-P1 Specific
Posted
Bigmark, I've just posted another attempt at this in the P1 download area. Do you think it will do the job?