Latency in playing VSTs

[PaoloB]

Hi, last month I bought a grand piano VST and tried to play it using my PX5s as a MIDI controller, but from the start I felt a bit uncomfortable because of latency in the response. I tried to change buffer settings and it got better, but still, when playing rapid chords full of notes I had a clear delay (a split second, but definitely present) between the key pression and the sound. I thought that was because of a limit of my hardware-software configuration, but a couple of days ago I tried the same configuration with a Roland FP4F as a MIDI controller and the delay was gone.

Reading on the forum, here, I found that Mike Martin suggests setting Hammer Response parameter to 0, so I tried this but it had no effect on that specific problem. Then, becasue Mike said this particular funciont is present only on the piano stage settings, I tried to switch to a non piano one (1-1, for instance) and the problem went away. To be clear: in normal playing the problem isn't perceptible (by me), but when I throw down handfuls of fast random chords, with the grand piano stage setting I have a delay that I don't have with non piano ones.

Does that make any sense?

Anyway, I'm glad I think I found a way to go around a thing that really bothered me!

[TomSlick]

What is your setup?

[PaoloB]

The setup is just a USB cable connecting the keyboard and a 2015 macbook pro running Kontakt player. The VST is Embertone's Walker 1955 concert D.

[Brad Saucier]

Perhaps high resolution MIDI is causing it.  Try turning that off in the PX if you haven't already.  It's under system settings, MIDI.  

[PaoloB]

Thanks, Brad, I'll try and turn that off and see what happens (I haven't touched any setting, apart from trying to set Hammer Response to 0).

[PaoloB]

OK, today I had some more time to test the various options (hammer response, high resolution midi, switch from grand piano sound to a non piano one) and I had the Idea to see if the delay I experienced was in some way caused by me occasionally playing notes in a chord not exactly at the same time as the others, so I took a cardboard box big enough to cover 2 octaves and played "chords" (more properly, bunches of notes, I'd say) with that instead of my fingers. That way I thought I would be almost sure the keys go down at the same time.

Well, playing with the box there was no difference (and no perceptible delay) in any configuration I tested, so I came at the conclusion that what I experienced in the first time was a casual and repeated instance of me playing delayed notes in one configuration and not doing that in the alternative ones. It's strange, because I checked that two or three times to be sure, but today, with the box, I think I excluded it was something due to the keyboard.

Thanks for the suggestions, I hope I didn't bother You with my nonsense...

[Sols]

Got the same issue hence my search brought me here (even thought of selling the board). Glad to hear your thoughts. 

[Choppin]

Hi,

 

How are you playing the VST?  Is it in a DAW, running in it's own stand alone program, Savi-Host, Kontakt...?

 

What is the VST?  There almost isn't such a thing as MIDI latency.  MIDI information is so small, that the transfer from hardware to computer can pretty much be considered instantaneous.  MIDI was implemented 40 years ago on machines much less capable than today and that transfer size of data and rate hasn't really changed.

 

Here's where things get a little more complicated:  The PX-5s stage settings can transfer 4 MIDI channels at once.  If the 4 channels are engaged on a stage setting, pressing a single middle C will send 4 middle Cs each on whatever channel is assigned to a zone.  The receiving software will have to deal with those 4 events.  Often synths, virtual or hardware are set to receive on all channels and will try to process all 4 (of the same) notes.  Often that may lead to phasing, or notes cutting out, or something else weird on the receiving software. 

 

To address this, start by setting the PX-5s stage setting to 0,0. What you can do is turn off ALL of the zones on a stage setting.  Test it out to make sure the VST isn't receiving anything, then Turn on zone 1.  Test it again - the VST should be receiving only on channel 1 (assuming the default).  This may correct the issue.  And as was stated earlier, the high resolution velocity might be a factor and you might want to turn that off in the system settings.

 

Now the second part is the software itself.  Make sure all of the settings in the software are correct - buffers, disk access if necessary, etc.  If the instrument samples are too big or if you are running the samples from harddisk without a large enough memory buffer, there can be slowness and latency.  Latency can also occur if you aren't using an ASIO driver on the computer.  If you are using an ASIO driver, try setting the sample rate to 48,000 (or 44,100) and the buffer value as low as you can without getting any crackling or clicking.   The VST host or standalone program may have these options in their settings or preferences as well.

 

Some software can have problems just by the way they were compiled.  For example, Hydrogen Drum Machine on a Windows computer has the biggest delay between pressing a key and then a drum sounding or recording.  However, RealiDrums through Kontakt seems instantaneous using the same PX in both cases.  Hydrogen's interface (the way it's compiled in this case) just is slow at handling MIDI. 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by Choppin