Can someone help me with specific info?

[JackRose]

Hello,

 

I've been looking at the Px S1000. I like the size, the features, the app support etc, and the ability to have batteries is great as this year i plan to take a piano up a mountain and play a gig.

 

However my issue is with the confusion over recording. I've been playing piano since I was 8, so I have that part down, but production is alien to me and always has been. Every time i play through Midi on Logic, it'll just sound absolutely dire as it's using its own sounds. Then I find the sustain command doesn't always work when pressing the pedal. So after playing for 5 mins or whatever, I play it back and it's got no sustain! (Argh).

 

I can't understand what on Earth Casio are talking about with the recording functions so can people please answer the following for me, because it seems like rocket science and I'm not the most intelligent when it comes to this:

 

1. Can I record on the Chordera app, the exact same sounds that come from the piano when playing normally? (With just the speakers, and surround effect etc). And then use that to upload online, my lovely sounding completed track?

 

2. Can I record the piano using the inbuilt recording function, with or without effects, and then transfer it to the computer? 

 

3. How long could I record for? I see this thing about 10,000 notes, which I understand, but most of my pieces are Ludovico Einaudi style with a lot of notes.

 

4. What do I do with these line out sockets? What do they go in to? :S

 

5. Is the 3000 much different, or worth buying over the 1000?

 

Thanks guys,

Jack.

 

 

[Chandler Holloway]

1 hour ago, JackRose said:

1. Can I record on the Chordera app, the exact same sounds that come from the piano when playing normally? (With just the speakers, and surround effect etc). And then use that to upload online, my lovely sounding completed track?

Chordana Play for Piano has a MIDI recorder built into it, and that MIDI recorder can export to an audio track. However, this audio file is generated from the samples within the app, which are much lower quality than the Privia’s internal sounds. It’s mostly helpful for educational purposes as a practice tool, especially because the PX-S1000 has a two track recorder built into it.

 

1 hour ago, JackRose said:

2. Can I record the piano using the inbuilt recording function, with or without effects, and then transfer it to the computer? 

The built in recording function is MIDI data of your piano performance, not an audio file. You can transfer it to the computer, but it will just be MIDI note data, and not the audio file you want.

 

1 hour ago, JackRose said:

3. How long could I record for? I see this thing about 10,000 notes, which I understand, but most of my pieces are Ludovico Einaudi style with a lot of notes.

It’s a 2-track MIDI recorder. You have 10,000 notes between two separate left and right hand tracks.

 

1 hour ago, JackRose said:

4. What do I do with these line out sockets? What do they go in to? :S

They go into the line inputs on a mixer, DI box, effects unit, amplifier, or audio interface. The signal from the line output is different from the headphones, which is EQ’d to enhance the listening experience in headphones. The line out signal does not have this EQ applied to it, and unlike the headphone jacks, connecting a cable to the line output jacks does not disable the onboard speakers.

 

The line outputs are a pair of separate mono 1/4” sockets instead of the stereo headphone jacks, and connecting a 1/4” cable to only the Left jack will cause the Privia to output in mono if you need a mono signal for whatever reason.

 

1 hour ago, JackRose said:

Is the 3000 much different, or worth buying over the 1000?

The PX-S3000 is a much more advanced instrument with a mix of synth and workstation features. The form factor, action, and sound engine are the same, but the PX-S3000 has an abundance of tones, built in Rhythms, customizable DSP effects, and a pair of knobs for tone editing. It also has a multitrack MIDI sequencer and an expression pedal input.

 

Most importantly for you, the PX-S3000 has a built in audio recorder that will allow you to export .WAV audio recordings of your performances directly to flash drive; no MIDI, exactly as it sounds on the PX-S3000, with effects and an optional backing track through the 1/8” audio input or Bluetooth. Great for cutting demos real quick and easy.

 

However, if you are just looking for piano sounds in that sleek PX-S form factor, the PX-S3000 might be overkill for you in terms of features. You could always get a PX-S1000 and a separate audio interface to record your piano performances if you don’t want to pay extra for the PX-S3000 and its built in .WAV recorder.

[IanB]

Just to add in a general sense regarding a DAW like logic. The key thing is to get the MIDI output set to play your keyboard rather than use some other playback device (e.g. internal sounds, a software synth, etc). There will be a setting per channel on the DAW to tell it which MIDI output, channel and patch to use. You need to set these in Logic, and then record the audio output of your keyboard as it plays back the piano part under the control of Logic via MIDI.

[JackRose]

Guys thank you so much. That really, really helps. I still need to Google a few things cause production is not my strong point, but this has been far more useful than anything I've found so far. 

 

Agreed about the 3000, it does seem overkill, but the recording feature is very useful to me. I just worry if I got the 1000 and had to buy a DI box or anything on top that it's just gonna confuse me more. But the raw sound file is exactly what I'm looking for. 

 

Thanks again.

[IanB]

Jack, I and am sure others here would be happy to help with any further questions. I remember the first time I used a DAW (Cubase, back in 1999, lawks I feel old now) the MIDI setup was very confusing at first. I got a lot of help from people on Usenet back then (sadly defunct now) in a very helpful Cubase group. Once you get your head around MIDI vs Audio and routing the channels correctly, it all comes together.

[JackRose]

I actually studied music at uni, although it was more of a history of music as well as everything about the industry. But the recording side was little to no help, as they assumed whoever started the course new at least a little about it!

 

Ok, so, I actually googled again and now with better info I've found this Behinger UCA222 or a UMC22. 

 

So if I buy one, rather than worry about getting all the effects and the raw sound on the 3000's inbuilt recorder ...I can do it on the 1000, as long as I used the line outs at the back? I'm not too fussed about a microphone too but as long I have the option, it'd be useful for my guitar also. 

I just don't want to learn production fully, cause my focus is more on trying to be a performer and that gives me anxiety enough as it is haha.

 

Mad respect for anyone like yourself that knows this, I know it's a learning curve but damn...so many elements! Took me 8 years alone to master photoshop! 

[JackRose]

MIDI does make my head spin if I'm honest. Spent 100's of hours trying to learn over the last decade, just doesn't click. Think the audio route itself is my best bet. Just want to record exactly what comes out of the speakers, effects and all, and not have to edit the myriad of things on top like velocity etc.

[IanB]

Jack, does your computer have an audio line in? It's normally colour coded light blue.

What are you ultimately trying to achieve? Do you want an audio recording of your live piano playing? Do you want to save your performance (the notes via MIDI) then play that back, or do you want to do both? I hope I'm being clear.

[Chandler Holloway]

If you only need to record your piano (a stereo, line level source), you don't need to get a particularly complex audio interface.

 

Line level signals are much easier to deal with when compared to guitar or mic signals, where extra gain and EQ knobs are necessary to get a decent recording. As Ian said, your computer might have a dedicated line input. These are less common on laptops and more modern desktop PCs, but if you've got one, that's definitely the easiest solution. If you have an extra 1/8" stereo aux cable lying around, you can connect one of the two headphone outputs to the line input and record that way.

 

If you don't have one, it's likely that your computer has one of those combined headphone/mic jacks for headsets and such. These are all mono inputs meant for mic signals, so they're not ideal for recording instruments like piano, where the stereo width is an essential component of the characteristic sound.

 

If you're looking for a super affordable USB interface with no frills, the Behringer UCA202 is my recommendation. The Behringer UCA222 you saw is exactly the same, but it's a bit more expensive because it comes with some audio recording software bundled in. Audacity is free and it sounds like it would be plenty capable of handling your recording needs, but that bundled software will give you access to extra effects and EQ options you can use to tweak your piano sound if that's something you want to explore. In that case, it would be better to disable the reverb and chorus effects on the PX-S1000 and record a "dry" unaltered signal so you have a clean slate to work when you start editing the recording.

 

If you'd rather keep it simple and stick to Audacity, you can always use the onboard effects. The Hall Simulator reverbs are very nice, and some of the EPianos and organs have accompanying DSP effects like tremolo and phaser. You can also use the Surround sound enhancer to widen the stereo field of the piano sound, which is great for headphone listening.

 

Note that those Behringer UCA models both have RCA inputs, so you'll need an adapter or a converter cable. I'd recommend a 1/4" L/R to RCA L/R interconnect cable (like the Hosa CPR-203) if you plan to record from the line outputs, but if you already own a stereo 1/8" to L/R RCA breakout cable (like the Hosa CMR-206), you can use that with one of the headphones inputs. The UCAs also have a headphone and optical output for live monitoring if need be, which can be helpful if you're playing along to a backing track or you're recording multiple tracks in Audacity, in which case you would want to hear the piano and the computer audio at the same time.

 

Unfortunately this won't cover your guitar needs that well, since it's fore line level signals only. If your guitar amp has a headphone output, you could record from that, although it's not ideal. If you want something better equipped to record guitar directly that could still cover your piano needs, consider a Behringer UMC202 or a PreSonus Audiobox 96. The Scarlett 2i2 is what I use in my home studio and I love it, but that's on the higher end of entry level.

 

You might also look into some field recorders like the Zoom H1n or the TASCAM DR-05X, which are a good solution if you don't want to sit at your computer to record. They run on batteries and have a built-in X/Y field mic, but also conveniently have a stereo line input that you can use with your piano. All the recordings are saved to a Micro-SD card, so you can just transfer the file off of there when you get a take you're happy with. If you download some drivers for it, you can connect it to your computer through the USB port and use it as an audio interface (or a USB microphone with the built in mics). You can also transfer files to your computer's hard drive over USB, which is useful if your computer lacks an SD card slot.

 

The field recorders are a convenient and flexible solution, but they're a bit more expensive as a result. One nice bonus is that they can mic guitar amps in a pinch, but you have to be pretty precise with the placement and gain setting since it's a stereo X/Y mic. I have a Zoom H1 and I bring it to jam sessions and house shows for easy room recordings.

 

Feel free to ask me any follow-up questions you might have about cables and adapters if you do decide to invest in a separate audio interface. I've been helping a lot of my friends set up their home studios lately, so I've been doing a lot of research into the subject as a result.

[JackRose]

Thanks for your reply! I went with the UCA 222.

One major issue. Is this hissing and electronics noise. But I've noticed, the hiss comes from the piano itself, and it doesn't matter if the volume is turned up or down. That in terms comes through the RCA cables and in to the AI, then in to the recording! Any thoughts? It seems to be something wrong with the piano itself, but not toosure. 

[Brad Saucier]

Do you have a USB cable connected to the PX?

[JackRose]

On 5/23/2020 at 3:21 PM, Brad Saucier said:

Do you have a USB cable connected to the PX?

Yes, at the time of recording I've had either the cable connected to my phone to use the casio app, or it's just been left plugged in. I'll try it without when I'm home!

[Chandler Holloway]

That’s most likely the issue. USB ground loop noise is, unfortunately, a common problem for electronic instruments and audio devices across the board. There are dedicated isolators you can use to address the issue, and DI boxes (commonly used by keyboard players in live performance situations) usually have integrated noise elimination circuits for this exact purpose.

 

The easiest solution is to just unplug the USB cable from the PX-S before you start a recording. I also recommend plugging the power supply directly into the wall socket if you’re still getting excess noise; consumer grade power strips can sometimes (not always) introduce noise into the signal path, especially if there are a lot of other devices plugged into it as well.

[JackRose]

I only have use of the wall socket as I don't have batteries. Disconnected the USB, hiss is still there. It's coming from the piano itself, and makes its way in to recordings. Doesn't change with volume control on the piano itself either. Just using one wall socket with nothing plugged in to the socket next to it. 

This is without any processing, normalisation etc. Best heard with headphones. It's quite noticeable. Recorded with the volume all the way up, and even if I change the volume, the hiss is the same level.
 

 

[JackRose]

Sorry I know I repeated myself about the volume, I meant with /without recording etc  

[IanB]

Okaaaaaay, so if this is ground loop hiss, the thing is getting only one audio ground on the system. Being a responsible soul I won't suggest the good old 70s way of doing it which was to disconnect the Earth wires in the plugs until it went away. This is quite dangerous if effective.

To do it safely, you can make an audio lead that doesn't have the shield wire connected at one end, since that is not a safety Earth, it's just a ground reference which we don't want anyway because it's causing a ground loop. You can easily try this by taking normal leads plugged in at either end and then just connecting the signal connection- the tip of a jack, the centre pin of an RCA.

Give this a try with your signal cables and see if it helps.

(Bonus points to anyone who can identify the Casio in the picture).