How to use CT-X700 (and other CT-X models) as a sound source for DAW sequencer

[RogerB123]

On 12/10/2019 at 1:22 PM, Brad Saucier said:

@maddox2019 Welcome to the forums. Yes, the CT-X700 can work as a MIDI controller for basic tasks such as inputting note data and sustain pedal messages to a DAW.  It can also act as a MIDI sound module for your DAW.  One thing to note is that Audacity is not a MIDI capable DAW, it is strictly for audio.  Other DAW software like Ableton will have MIDI support. 

I'm so glad I found someone who might be able to help me.  I've been looking for days. I want to use my Casio ctx700 as a midi sound module with my Auria Pro DAW on my iPad.  I've been able to record midi onto the daw from the Casio keys, and also get playback with the daw triggering the Casio Tones.  But even though I set up my daw's tracks with each their own midi channel, I can't figure out how to set up the Casio so it has the ability to receive midi data to trigger its internal sounds by the channel number I used to record it. I couldn't find that info in the manual.  

 

Whatever I've tried makes it so I can only hear one instrument playing all the notes I record.  It doesn't behave like it's receiving separate channels.  I've had other keyboards that made this function obvious, but I guess since this keyboard has a sequencer of its own that it was not included in the manual.   What do you know?   Thanks for any info.   Cheers,  Roger

[Brad Saucier]

If all of your tracks are indeed sending on multiple channels, but everything plays back with the same tone, the issue may be that all channels are using the same tone.  How are you assigning tones for each track?  Have you entered bank and program change data?  

[RogerB123]

I'm not yet familiar with the banks. I only looked in the midi under function and set that at the midi channel for the tones I selected.  I tried that way with three different tones each with their own channel but I could only hear one instrument.   

I figured that once I found how to set up instruments I would learn how to save it in the banks.  What should I know here?

Thanks for your reply Brad.  So much to learn eh?   

[RogerB123]

15 hours ago, Brad Saucier said:

If all of your tracks are indeed sending on multiple channels, but everything plays back with the same tone, the issue may be that all channels are using the same tone.  How are you assigning tones for each track?  Have you entered bank and program change data?  

 Your suggestion to check the bank is of course well appreciated, but after digging in I still don't see how this works.  There's just not enough info in the manual to take the right steps to arrive where I need to be.  Do you have any further info that could get me closer to functioning in this way?  You asked: How are you assigning tones for each track? That is my question exactly.  How do I do this?  I don't see an answer to this in the manual anywhere laid out in steps I can follow.  Thanks for any clarity on this.   Roger

 

 

[Brad Saucier]

The basics are this.  Upon playback of your recording, each track (each channel) in your recording will need to send bank and program change commands to the CTX in order to hear the desired tones.  That is done from the DAW software itself.  I don't know the details on the software you're using, but it should offer the ability to do that in some fashion.  You'll probably want to research Auria instructions for that. If it allows you to manually enter that information, the CTX appendix has a chart of tones that lists the bank and program change data needed.  Casio provides a few patch scripts for several popular DAWs that makes the process a little easier, unfortunately Auria is not one of them.  

 

Now, I can offer a suggestion that may or may not work. This could be easier than the manual method.  The CTX will send bank and program change information to your DAW through channel 1 whenever you select a tone for U1.  Rather than selecting a tone for U1 before you start recording, start your recording, then select the tone.  The software may record the bank and program information sent by the CTX.  Repeat that for each track in your recording.  Playback should send all of that back to the CTX and select the desired tones for each part.

[Chandler Holloway]

This is a small section from an upcoming reference manual I'm compiling that will detail MIDI editing on the CT-X models. Hopefully it will help you understand a bit more about how voice assignments work, @RogerB123.

 

Program Change (PC) messages carry a value of 0-127, and this value correlates to a voice contained in the keyboard's bank of tones that will be called up whenever this message is encountered on a channel during playback. If a song starts playing using a grand piano tone on channel 6 and a PC message is sent telling it to switch to a trumpet two measures later, any notes played on channel 6 from that point onward will use the trumpet tone until a different PC message is encountered or the song ends. Sending the same Program Change message to a channel twice in a row will not have any effect on playback, as a new tone needs to be called up to actually change the voice assignment.

 

Of course, modern keyboards like the CT-X models can store far more than just 128 tones in the internal memory, so a MIDI sequence needs more than just a single PC message to properly access all of the available sounds. As such, a bank select message can be sent along with a Program Change to define a smaller subset (or bank) of tones that the accompanying PC message chooses from. Bank select messages are a Control Change (CC) message, separate from the PC message that actually carries out the voice switch itself. CC messages have two parts: a function number and a control value. A bank select CC message always has a function number of 0 (this tells the keyboard that this message will serve the function of switching banks). The control value of a bank select message is what controls the bank you're switching to; check the appendix to determine the bank (0 through 127) your desired tone is assigned to, and enter that number as the control value.

 

To use a real world example, the tones in your instrument’s memory are like files in a file cabinet with multiple drawers. Instead of considering all the files in the cabinet together as one massive sequential catalog, MIDI voice assignments narrow things down by first defining the bank (drawer) the sound belongs to and then pointing to a specific tone (file) within that bank to use. The following excerpt from the CT-X700’s appendix shows the PC and bank select values for the first 10 tones in memory.

 

 

Instruments within the same broad category usually share similar program change numbers. All ten of these CT-X piano tones are called up with a PC value of either 1 or 0, but the extra bank select value is what sets them apart.

 

Keep in mind that the order in which you send these two messages is important to ensure that your voice change is executed properly. Receipt of the PC message is what actually triggers the voice change for a channel; sending a bank select value by itself will not have any effect on playback for that channel, but it will determine the group of tones a subsequent PC message points to. It’s best to send a bank select message at the exact same time as its accompanying Program Change, or even slightly before it if you want to be absolutely certain the tone generator will process them sequentially.

[RogerB123]

Hello Chandler,    Great job laying this out.  When you say that hopefully this will help me understand the setup for midi I was hoping it would be a bit less complicated.  I had an Alesis keyboard awhile back that made it so easy to set up all my instruments in a few minutes.  I don't understand why Casio is unable to make it simpler than it is.  I was never much good with complicated processes so I guess I'll not use the multi-timbral "capability" of my keyboard until I can find a whole day to poke around with it.  I do have some very nice plugin instruments with my iPad DAW as well as all the Korg Gadget instruments as plugins in my iMac DAW.  

 

For now I can always work on one instrument at a time in the Casio, edit the midi in my DAW until I get things just right and then record it as audio in my DAW.  I'll do this until I have time to figure out what you've laid out.  If you ever find out a simpler way to assign midi channels, I for one would be thrilled to know.    Again,  I appreciate your efforts with laying it all out, but some of us who frustrate easily are looking for simpler solutions to a decent work flow.  

 

Thank you kindly,  

Roger

[Chandler Holloway]

1 hour ago, RogerB123 said:

I had an Alesis keyboard awhile back that made it so easy to set up all my instruments in a few minutes.  I don't understand why Casio is unable to make it simpler than it is.

 

This is not something that's specific to Casio; all MIDI instruments handle tone selection in this way. Your Alesis did the exact same thing, I guarantee it. The bank select message defines a subset of all the tones in a keyboard's memory, program change tells the instrument which tone to use out of that subset.

 

As Brad said before, Casio has released patch scripts for all of the most commonly used DAWs that circumvent the need to select specific tones using PC and bank select messages. With the patch scripts loaded in to your DAW, all you have to do is search out the tone you want by name, and selecting it will automatically input the bank select and PC messages that call up that specific tone from memory. You are (unfortunately) using a DAW that Casio doesn't have pitch scripts for (mobile DAWs don't have a very large user base, and Auria pro doesn't even support patch scripts in the first place), so you have to do it a different way.

 

1 hour ago, RogerB123 said:

I'll do this until I have time to figure out what you've laid out.

 

If there's anything in my explanation that confused you, please point it out. I am writing this guide specifically to address the needs of people who are not used to working with MIDI, so your perspective on how approachable the information is will be a great help to me.

 

1 hour ago, RogerB123 said:

 If you ever find out a simpler way to assign midi channels, I for one would be thrilled to know.

Brad already pointed it out; the CT-X700 automatically sends out a Program Change and bank select message whenever you select a voice for U1 (the main tone) on the keyboard. Assign a MIDI track to match the channel the CT-X700 is outputting, and while the track is recording, switch to the tone you want to use. That will send out the PC and bank select messages you need, so all you need to do is move them to the beginning of the recording in the piano roll. I'll break it down step by step:

1. Go to the Function list, scroll over to MIDI and press enter. The first setting in here will be "Keyboard Channel." This determines the channel that MIDI messages for U1 (the main tone) are sent out on for the CT-X700. The default value will be 1, but you can set it to whatever you like. I'll assume you're keeping it on channel 1.
2. In Auria, create a new MIDI track with a channel setting of 1 (or whatever you set the CT-X700's output channel on in the previous step) and set the CT-X700 as the MIDI input for the recording.
3. Start a recording for that track. On the CT-X700, type in the three digit code that matches the tone you want to use for that track. End the recording.
4. When you view your recording in Auria's piano roll, it'll look empty. That's because you didn't play any notes, and the default view in the Piano Roll is note events.
5. Tap the drop down menu where it says "Notes" and select Program Change. You should see a Program Change event in the piano roll (it was sent out when you selected the tone on the CT-X700). If you don't see an event, you didn't set up your recording properly.
6. Your Program Change event is probably not at the very beginning of the recorded track, because you started the recording and then selected the tone on your CT-X shortly thereafter. Move the Program Change event to the very beginning of the recording.
7. Tap the same drop down menu, but select Bank select MSB this time. Again, you'll see a bank select message in the piano roll. Move it to the very beginning of the track. Now you have the correct PC and bank select messages at the very beginning of the track in your DAW. You can record the notes you want for this track now, or finish setting up the other tracks and come back to this one later.
8. Change the channel assignment of this newly set-up track to something other than channel 1 (or whatever you set back in step 1).
9. Create a new track with a channel assignment of 1. Repeat steps 3-8 until all of your tracks are set up on different numbered MIDI channels with the proper PC and bank select commands.