CT-S1000V Lyric Tones and MIDI

[Chas]

Maybe I'm missing a simple step here. but I'm having a weird issue when using the S1000V Lyrics Tones via MIDI with my DAW.

 

I've followed all the steps for connecting the S1000V to my computer: connect S1000V to PC via USB (Win10), > Turn on S1000V (computer recognises device) > start up my DAW (Acoustica Mixcraft Pro 9 > select CASIO USB (under Default MIDI devices/ input) in the main preferences.

 

Then I open up a new project with Track 01 as a MIDI instrument track. In the Track 01 MIDI track preferences, I select "Casio USB" under the "External MIDI Devices", then in the ARM TRACK drop down menu I select "Casio USB MIDI". I select Program Change = 0, MSB = 108, LSB =0 (see pic) as per the MIDI LYRIC Tone List chart on P.307 of the USER GUIDE, to select the first Lyric Tone "Do You Hear The Music?".  

 

Prior to doing this, the S1000V was in Lyric Mode with the first Lyric Phrase selected. If I were to play the keyboard at that point, I would only hear the Lyric Tone being played back. However, when I send the Program Change/ MSB/ LSB information, the "Advanced" Tone light comes on and  when I now play the keyboard the Lyric Tone still sounds, but there is another layer (sounds like a String Patch) being played simultaneously.  N.B. The Layers Mode is not engaged. However, if I do engage the Layers Mode and go to the  "Balance" menu, I can turn down to zero L1 and U1, and the Lyric tone still plays with the added strings on U2. If I turn U2 all the way down to zero, both the lyrics and the strings are effected and get cut off. Increasing the Program Change number selects different Lyric Phrases, but there's still that extra strings layer being played simultaneously. Changing MIDI channels also doesn't seem to make much difference, and it does the same if I select MIDI ALL CHANNELS.

 

Meanwhile, I can play and record MIDI information from the S1000V into the MIDI track, and when I play the MIDI track back with the above mentioned Program Change/ MSB/ LSB information, just the Lyric Tone sounds with no additional layers. I only have the extra Layer sounding when I actually physically play the S1000V's keyboard AFTER sending it PC/ MSB/ LSB from the MIDI track.

 

On the flip side, if I select an instrument Tone, for example, Tone 399 (X-SYNTH LEAD 1), and send Program Change = 81, MSB = 7, LSB = 0, then the Tone can be played on the S1000V exactly the same way that it plays if I send MIDI information from my DAW's MIDI track. It seems that this extra layer being played simultaneously when using the S1000V's keyboard only happens when a Lyric Tone is selected over MIDI.

Can anyone shed any light on this issue or have I missed something blatantly obvious?! 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Chas

[Brad Saucier]

Keeping in mind the MIDI IN sound engine on these (and most Casio instruments) is not the same sound engine as what is locally controlled, it sounds like you have a MIDI loopback situation that's not quite right.  

[pianokeyjoe]

Ok, let me see if I can crack it. Casio uses in the past: Midi channel 1=melody,midi channel 2=chord,midi channel 3=obligato, midi channel 4=bass, midi channel 10=drums(CT670?). From what I have read here from you guys helping others with the multi track recorder on these Casio keyboards, it seems the keyboard assigns the first 7 or 8 midi channels to Auto Accompaniment tracks, then the remainder to straight midi channel to tone module channels? It is more confusing when the Casio , like some Yamahas, has 32 midi channels capability(16 virtual for accompaniments), and 16 real or hard wired channels for straight midi reception(as in tone module mode). I think you are hearing midi channel 1 set to chord strings sound.. I.E. you are hearing Virtual midi channel 1, Bank A? Cause you only hear it when you play the keys on the keyboard am I right? But not in actual playback from the DAW?

[pianokeyjoe]

To add, if you are hearing this string sound only as playing on the keys, like Brad said, you have a midi loopback situation going on cause the local control mode is set for the 32 midi channels(Bank A and Bank B). It is hard to put into words cause I have several keyboards and grooveboxes that do the same thing. You may need to set your Casio into a tone module mode or something. I know the MT540 required you to select MIDI mode in order to make the keyboard multi timberal which is what you are trying to get the CT-S1000V to be. Maybe not. I do not have this keyboard yet lol. But carefully and methodically search and try to find out the quirks of the OS and I have confidence you will figure it out. Wish I had one myself now.. If I need to break this down further let me know guys. I do have Casios and Yamahas that are doing this crazy thing too. Basically, if you are going to use the Casio as a midi tone module to be triggered by the DAW, use a different keyboard as your midi controller or find a way to disconnect the Casio's keyboard from the Home keyboard mode or arranger mode into a midi control mode only. This explains why my Yamaha RM1X and Korg PA600QT misbehave with using an external device with midi lol! Sheesh!

Edited February 14, 2022 by pianokeyjoe
misspelling

[Chas]

@Brad Saucierand @pianokeyjoe- UPDATE!

 

I think I might have found the issue., or at least a way to get round it. I suspect this is the MIDI loopback that you both speak about.

 

When I fire up my DAW with my S1000V connected, I can ARM a MIDI track and tell it to record MIDI from the Casio USB. I can then hit record, and the DAW will correctly record the MIDI information from the S1000V's keyboard, and whatever Tone I've selected on the S1000V is sounded back from it while I am playing the keys during recording. However, if I then play back that recorded information now recorded in my DAW, nothing will sound as I haven't actually inserted an Instrument (VST or external sound source) onto the MIDI track to tell the DAW what sound source to use.  So if I select Casio USB MIDI as the Instrument, and then send the Program Change, MSB and LSB data for a Lyric Tone (0, 108, 0), it does indeed select the correct Lyric Tone, but the S1000V screen then shows "INST/ RHYTHM 522: SYNTH-VOICE1" (plus the LED switches from LYRIC to TONE in the TONE MODE SELECT section) , and it appears that this is the additional "Layered" Tone that is also sounded when I now manually play a Lyric Tone with the S1000V's keyboard. If I just send pre-recorded MIDI track data from the DAW with the Lyric Tone PC/ MSB/ LSB to the S1000V, it will just play the correct Lyric Tone with no additional layer. If I then manually play the S1000V keyboard and/ or try and record another MIDI track, I get the simultaneous layered effect of the Lyric Tone and the Synth-Voice1 Tone.

 

The issue seems to be that recording and playback are two separate things (obviously!), and if I manually play the S1000V's keyboard with an active  "Instrument" inserted on that track, then what seems to be happening is that the S1000V is sounding its own Lyric Tone, but then the MIDI track is also sending this same MIDI data back to the S1000V and for some reason calling up "INST/ RHYTHM 522: SYNTH-VOICE1" to play as well. As the S1000V is multi timbral, it is able to play these two different Tones simultaneously. To get round this, when I need to record MIDI, play the keyboard and hear the S1000V on its own, I need to switch OFF the Instrument loaded onto the MIDI track. When I want to play back what I've recorded as MIDI and hear the S1000V play it, then I need to turn ON the instrument loaded onto the MIDI track. 

At the very least I can now record and play back the S1000V's Lyric Tones without the unwanted Layering occurring. 🙂

 

 

[Brad Saucier]

I see you're manually inputting program change numbers.  Here's a tip that you may find easier.  Simply hit record in your software first, then select the tone you want to use on the keyboard.  It'll automatically record the program change message.  No need to lookup numbers and type them in, or install any patch script files.

[Chas]

Thanks Brad, that's good to know.  I shall try that later today 👍

[Neil Boyer]

I use Logic for composition and want to use my new CT-S1000V as primary keyboard controller. I have been able to record notes into individual tracks but so far that's all I seem able to do. Do you have any recommendations as to proper Logic settings? A YouTube video on how to set it all up would also be helpful if someone is able to do that.

Edited February 21, 2022 by Neil Boyer

[Mike Martin]

I've used it successfully in Logic with program changes to control Lyrics. I'll work on an informal video showing how I do it. 

[Juha-Pekka Lehtonen]

CT-S1000V Local control with DAW

With DAW and MIDI sequnces recordings, I have set the CT-S1000V keyboard local control to OFF.

Then using DAW the CASIO USB midi driver routes note play messages back to instrument and there is no MIDI loop.

 

This can be done via Menu > and selecting local control in settings by < and > and selecting it "OFF".

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Juha-Pekka Lehtonen