PX-5S. To buy, or not to buy. That is the question.

[jaspeter]

...The question I'm still waffling on.  I don't know exactly why I'm waffling, I love my PX-5S and it does almost everything I want it to do.  Almost.  I think that's why I'm waffling.  But the question has become urgent.  After 8 1/2 years of moderate to heavy use, it's showing signs that it isn't going to last much longer.  I've mentioned a few in previous posts (no, I haven't pulled the trigger on new gear yet - I'm a waffler):  it's intermittently choosing to not save Zone 3 settings in my Stage Settings, the "0" button to select the first Stage Setting in each bank is also not working 100% of the time.  But now the Phrase Start/Stop button is no longer functional.  I pressed it and a few moments later, when I pressed it again, it just didn't do anything.  At all.  And it hasn't since.  Dead.  This isn't a huge problem, because I always map Pedal 2 to start and stop the phrase, but with the top buttons starting to go out, it's only a matter of time until it's a critical one.

 

Here are the things that have kept me from calling my local music store and ordering another PX-52 (and a few other "pros" that indicate why I'm waffling).  I'd appreciate if anyone has ideas that might help me make an informed decision.

• I love that the PX-5S has so much customizability in drum kits.  I've made extensive use of the envelope editing for the drums.  Unfortunately, the price is that I give up a hex layer.  I could really use that extra hex layer.  It would be awesome if percussion had it's own dedicated "Zone".
• I don't love that I'm limited to one phrase.  I use the phrase player almost exclusively as a drum track, but there's no intro/verse/chorus variation.  I've resorted to sneakiness to make it work, like routing certain instruments to DSPs then turning the DSP volumes on and off, but that has it's own limitations.
• I would have liked some pads in addition to (or instead) of some sliders or knobs.  I find myself more often turning things off and on rather than changing their values.
• I love that I can show up to a gig or practice with one piece of gear.  Of course, there are the necessary peripherals like pedals, cables, monitor, and DI, but instrument-wise, it's just the PX-5S.
• I would really like a legato/monophonic mode.  It's a rare occasion that I need to bust out a lead part (and I'm honestly not that good at that), but I think it would go a long way.  The existing portomento doesn't quite cut it because it still allows the note envelope to retrigger.  In the MIDI manual, it says that there is a portomento control that shuts off the existing note when you play a new one.  I've experimented with this and it kind of works, and I think I could rig something up with a my MIDI Event Processor, but it still retriggers the attack envelope, so it doesn't really cut it.

 

I think that's actually all:  a dedicated drum zone, phrase variation capability, pads, and mono mode.  To be honest, the last two I could live without pretty easily.

 

I was looking at the PX-360M and the MZX-500.  Both would tick the box for the phrase variations.  In the case of the MZX-500, I lose my 88 keys.  In the former case... I'm not sure what I lose.  I'm still doing research, but it looks like the Zones are more restrictive, like I can't assign 4 different DSPs (which I never thought I'd miss, but I use them all the time).  I'm not 100% sure of that, though.  With either of these options, I'd have to reprogram all my Stage Settings, too, which doesn't excite me.

 

I've also looked outside the Casio family and I've flirted with the Roland FA-08, but I haven't tried one out and I felt like there were still some functions missing that I've taken for granted with the PX-5S.

 

This was a long post, but if you got this far, you might also have some ideas for me.  I'd love to hear them!

[XW-Addict]

Piqued my interest with an 88 keybed (newer), But than on a MZX-500 full hexlayer per zone  with PX5S full dsp capacity for each of them. 

Wear and tear on buttons happens with my PX5S as well I've used it extensively. I didn't know about the control to cut portamento off while 

playing.    

[Brad Saucier]

Have you tried the song sequencer on the PX-5S?  It's really just a phrase chaining tool, 8 tracks total. As far as MZX, it only 1 DSP for all 4 performance (zones) parts.  You can force it to 2, but that's not something it was meant to do, so it's quirky in use.  

[jaspeter]

On 3/14/2022 at 3:11 PM, Brad Saucier said:

Have you tried the song sequencer on the PX-5S?  It's really just a phrase chaining tool, 8 tracks total. As far as MZX, it only 1 DSP for all 4 performance (zones) parts.  You can force it to 2, but that's not something it was meant to do, so it's quirky in use.  

 

I looked into the song sequencer, but I don't want to lock myself into the song structure that tightly. I gig with a singer a couple times a month and it's not uncommon to either have to vamp over a song section because of things going on at the venue, or one of us misses a cue. 

 

If the song sequencer could just loop on different parts of the song until I tell it to advance it would me more useful to me. Maybe it has a function like that, but it wasn't obvious to me reading through the manual.

 

The number of songs that can be stored was also somewhat restrictive compared to 100 stage settings.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, though!

[jaspeter]

I had a gig last night and it reminded me how much I enjoy setting up and playing the PX-5S. It makes the decision that much harder. It's getting older and more dated, but it still is very suited to my style and workflow.

 

On the other hand, I've had it for so long that maybe my style and workflow are what they are because they are defined by what the PX-5S can do.

 

Grrrrrr...  The more I think about it, the more I continue to be torn.  

[Choppin]

I guess if the keyboard is wearing out, a new one is on the horizon.  As far as being dated... I don't know how true that is.  The GM sounds were always not that great even when it came out 10 years ago.  But the Sysnthesis, filters, and arpeggiation are top notch even today.  I'm not sure if you would find much better synth sounds and arpeggiation even on highend boards - and if you plug in a laptop or ipad, you suddenly have a whole plethora of sounds you can use the PX to control.  There's still lots of control over the piano sounds and plenty of patches out there to use on the forums - so really, I don't think dated is applicable in your decision.   And even though there's not true subtractive synthesis or building oddball waveforms from scratch, there are so many partials and base synth patches and waves and layering to keep one out of trouble.

 

But, workstation-wise, pads, monphonic mode, a different synth might be refreshing in this regard.  Hmmm, I've been eyeballing the roland FAs the roland Fantom, and the new O series for a while now.  I use to have roland gear and was never disappointed with the sound - and the drum programming was easier or at least more complete.  If you've got the dough, get something juicy that ticks all the boxes.  If the PX is still functional you can use both even though you like showing up to a gig with 1 KB.  Maybe look into using a small laptop that you could control and route things like monophonic synths, drum machines, etc and still keep using the PX.  If buttons are sticking or not registering, maybe a good cleaning with compressed air or standing the keyboard up sideways or on the back for a period of time would loosen small debris and allow the controls full contact.

 

I bought the PX-5s blind and have been delighted for many years.  I have two main gripes though they have not been show stoppers:  No dedicated drum "zone" outside of the 4 zones, and the keyboard is just a little too slow (the keys do not rise back up into retrigger position fast enough as well as the pitch bend does not snap back into place fast enough). 

 

I guess the main worry is spending the money and ending up with something you don't like.  But, if you buy something new and different, you still have the PX (for as long as it lasts).

Edited April 3, 2022 by Choppin

[Silvano Silva]

On 3/14/2022 at 12:38 AM, jaspeter said:

...The question I'm still waffling on.  I don't know exactly why I'm waffling, I love my PX-5S and it does almost everything I want it to do.  Almost.  I think that's why I'm waffling.  But the question has become urgent.  After 8 1/2 years of moderate to heavy use, it's showing signs that it isn't going to last much longer.  I've mentioned a few in previous posts (no, I haven't pulled the trigger on new gear yet - I'm a waffler):  it's intermittently choosing to not save Zone 3 settings in my Stage Settings, the "0" button to select the first Stage Setting in each bank is also not working 100% of the time.  But now the Phrase Start/Stop button is no longer functional.  I pressed it and a few moments later, when I pressed it again, it just didn't do anything.  At all.  And it hasn't since.  Dead.  This isn't a huge problem, because I always map Pedal 2 to start and stop the phrase, but with the top buttons starting to go out, it's only a matter of time until it's a critical one.

 

Here are the things that have kept me from calling my local music store and ordering another PX-52 (and a few other "pros" that indicate why I'm waffling).  I'd appreciate if anyone has ideas that might help me make an informed decision.

• I love that the PX-5S has so much customizability in drum kits.  I've made extensive use of the envelope editing for the drums.  Unfortunately, the price is that I give up a hex layer.  I could really use that extra hex layer.  It would be awesome if percussion had it's own dedicated "Zone".
• I don't love that I'm limited to one phrase.  I use the phrase player almost exclusively as a drum track, but there's no intro/verse/chorus variation.  I've resorted to sneakiness to make it work, like routing certain instruments to DSPs then turning the DSP volumes on and off, but that has it's own limitations.
• I would have liked some pads in addition to (or instead) of some sliders or knobs.  I find myself more often turning things off and on rather than changing their values.
• I love that I can show up to a gig or practice with one piece of gear.  Of course, there are the necessary peripherals like pedals, cables, monitor, and DI, but instrument-wise, it's just the PX-5S.
• I would really like a legato/monophonic mode.  It's a rare occasion that I need to bust out a lead part (and I'm honestly not that good at that), but I think it would go a long way.  The existing portomento doesn't quite cut it because it still allows the note envelope to retrigger.  In the MIDI manual, it says that there is a portomento control that shuts off the existing note when you play a new one.  I've experimented with this and it kind of works, and I think I could rig something up with a my MIDI Event Processor, but it still retriggers the attack envelope, so it doesn't really cut it.

 

I think that's actually all:  a dedicated drum zone, phrase variation capability, pads, and mono mode.  To be honest, the last two I could live without pretty easily.

 

I was looking at the PX-360M and the MZX-500.  Both would tick the box for the phrase variations.  In the case of the MZX-500, I lose my 88 keys.  In the former case... I'm not sure what I lose.  I'm still doing research, but it looks like the Zones are more restrictive, like I can't assign 4 different DSPs (which I never thought I'd miss, but I use them all the time).  I'm not 100% sure of that, though.  With either of these options, I'd have to reprogram all my Stage Settings, too, which doesn't excite me.

 

I've also looked outside the Casio family and I've flirted with the Roland FA-08, but I haven't tried one out and I felt like there were still some functions missing that I've taken for granted with the PX-5S.

 

This was a long post, but if you got this far, you might also have some ideas for me.  I'd love to hear them!

I have the MZ-X500 and I think it has some advantages over the PX-5 .

If you're a guy who programs the MZ-X a lot, there's no shortage of resources to do so. You might be surprised about the lack of keys and their playability since the PX is a hammer action piano.

The MZ-X unfortunately only has 2 DSPs but in terms of system effects such as Reverb Delay and Chorus are fully programmable.

The lack of DSPs ends when you work with the MZ-X sampler.

This is where when you add different samples the keyboard changes shape. And also the arranger feature which facilitates quick and practical arrangements what the PX you have to be sequencing.

[jaspeter]

On 4/3/2022 at 3:48 PM, Choppin said:

I guess if the keyboard is wearing out, a new one is on the horizon.  As far as being dated... I don't know how true that is.  The GM sounds were always not that great even when it came out 10 years ago.  But the Sysnthesis, filters, and arpeggiation are top notch even today.  I'm not sure if you would find much better synth sounds and arpeggiation even on highend boards - and if you plug in a laptop or ipad, you suddenly have a whole plethora of sounds you can use the PX to control.  There's still lots of control over the piano sounds and plenty of patches out there to use on the forums - so really, I don't think dated is applicable in your decision.   And even though there's not true subtractive synthesis or building oddball waveforms from scratch, there are so many partials and base synth patches and waves and layering to keep one out of trouble.

 

The more I'm investigating, the more I think you're right about it not being that dated.  The PX-5S still appears competitive.  I have been able to approximate just about any sound I've run across.  I also didn't realize how valuable the programmable arpeggiators really were.  Many of the boards I've looked at only have canned arps, and they sometimes only have one or two arpeggiators.

 

On 4/3/2022 at 3:48 PM, Choppin said:

But, workstation-wise, pads, monphonic mode, a different synth might be refreshing in this regard.  Hmmm, I've been eyeballing the roland FAs the roland Fantom, and the new O series for a while now.  I use to have roland gear and was never disappointed with the sound - and the drum programming was easier or at least more complete.  If you've got the dough, get something juicy that ticks all the boxes.  If the PX is still functional you can use both even though you like showing up to a gig with 1 KB.  Maybe look into using a small laptop that you could control and route things like monophonic synths, drum machines, etc and still keep using the PX.  If buttons are sticking or not registering, maybe a good cleaning with compressed air or standing the keyboard up sideways or on the back for a period of time would loosen small debris and allow the controls full contact.

 

I had to read this a couple of times before I realized you meant "keyboard" when you said "KB".  I like a simple setup, but one kilobyte is a little too simple, even for me!    😂

I have a decent day job, so the money isn't a huge deal.  It's surprising to me, though, how difficult it is to find one setup that "ticks all the boxes", even with a flexible budget!  I'm considering the laptop route.  The flexibility and options are tantalizing. However, it does seem "fiddly" to me between performance tuning, system updates, remembering to turn off extra computer functions that can interfere with a live performance, and having yet another piece of gear (Audio/MIDI interface) to have to set up.

 

I have considered opening the case and checking the contacts, but that does leave me with the very real possibility of needing a new keyboard even more urgently because I really messed something up.

 

On 4/3/2022 at 3:48 PM, Choppin said:

I bought the PX-5s blind and have been delighted for many years.  I have two main gripes though they have not been show stoppers:  No dedicated drum "zone" outside of the 4 zones, and the keyboard is just a little too slow (the keys do not rise back up into retrigger position fast enough as well as the pitch bend does not snap back into place fast enough). 

 

This has been my story, too.  I never tried it before I bought it and it's been great.  My fingers are getting tired more quickly than they used to, so a quicker, lighter keybed (like a synth action) might be welcome, although the retriggering hasn't been an issue for me, especially in the treble octaves.  That's yet another point to consider.  I'm wondering if I'd prefer a less strenuous semi-weighted/synth-action keyboard.  Most self-contained keyboards are weighted for the 88-key models, though, so this is another argument for a computer setup.

 

On 4/3/2022 at 3:48 PM, Choppin said:

I guess the main worry is spending the money and ending up with something you don't like.  But, if you buy something new and different, you still have the PX (for as long as it lasts).

 

This is true.  I've even had the fantasy of "chopping" the PX-5S up to isolate just the sound engine and controls as a standalone MIDI module.  But it is just a fantasy.  I suspect that is far beyond my capability and definitly beyond the time I'd have available to do that.

 

Thanks for weighing in!

 

[jaspeter]

5 hours ago, Silvano Silva said:

I have the MZ-X500 and I think it has some advantages over the PX-5 .

If you're a guy who programs the MZ-X a lot, there's no shortage of resources to do so. You might be surprised about the lack of keys and their playability since the PX is a hammer action piano.

The MZ-X unfortunately only has 2 DSPs but in terms of system effects such as Reverb Delay and Chorus are fully programmable.

The lack of DSPs ends when you work with the MZ-X sampler.

This is where when you add different samples the keyboard changes shape. And also the arranger feature which facilitates quick and practical arrangements what the PX you have to be sequencing.

 

The sampler capability did get me to consider that I could always sample the "finished product" sounds from the PX-5S - even percussion loops!  The pads would free up some of the keyboard space I currently use for drums or other triggers.  It definitely brings capabilities to the table that I could use!