S1000V Recording Section confusion

[Chas]

In my quest to explore and to try and understand all the S1000V's main features, I'm currently delving into the RECORDING feature. I have to say though, I am struggling to get my head round some of its operations and practical uses despite having read and re-read the User Guide regarding this feature. Here are my questions, and then below them I will explain what I have discovered about the S1000V's recording feature:
 

 

1. What exactly is the purpose of the two Easy Record Tone and Rhythm Tracks (11 and 12), and why does Track 11 only allow Tones and no rhythms to be recorded? 

 

2. Why does a Multitrack recording when exported as a MID file only include the rhythm data in the 13 tracks and leaves out the additional Solo track data?

 

3. Why when saved RHYTHM and MULTITRACK .MID files are loaded into a USER SONG location do they play back with different drum sounds?

 

4. What is the actual purpose of the S1000V having the option to save its recordings in the MID file format? What did Casio have in mind that we could do with them?

 

 

As per Page 191 of the USER GUIDE, there is the option for "Easy Record" and "Multitrack Record". Easy Record gives you a Tone Record (Slot 11) and Rhythm Record (Slot 12). I initially thought that these were identical in function though it seems that with Tone Record -Slot 11, you can only record Tones and no rhythms (drums), whereas Rhythm - Slot 12 can record rhythms/ drums as well as Tones. Is there a practical purpose for Slot 11 not allowing rhythms to be recorded whereas Slot 12 can record Rhythm AND Tones? Regardless, I have successfully recorded performances to both of these tracks and played them back. I have also been able to copy either of these tracks then paste them to one of the Multi-track "System" tracks - slots 13 - 17. 

 

Where I seem to be struggling is when saving and then re-loading recordings when saved as MID files. To save a recording. I've gone to the Main Menu > Media > Save, and have tried saving a recording in both MID and also the proprietary TRF, RRF, MRF file formats. To load it back in, I go to Main Menu > Media > Load > Song > Tone/ Rhythm/ Multi Track and then select the recording that I had previously saved. and then choose a suitable location to load it into. If I saved and loaded a file in the TRF/ RRF/ MRF format, then I can load them back into the appropriate locations and they all play back perfectly fine.

 

Meanwhile, if I save a recording in the MID format, loading them back in seems to be a different story. If I save a Multitrack Recording as a MID file, then I can only load it back into the S1000V via Menu> Media> Song> User Song (as per Page 254 of the User Guide, only USER SONGS can load in a MID file from a flash drive). But when I play it back (it's now in the User Song category), it only plays the the rhythm parts and the drums use different sounds. Meanwhile, if I load in a SLOT 12 - Rhythm recording saved in the MIDI format, I can load this into the USER SONG area too and this will play back all that was recorded, drums and tones, but as with the multitrack recordings, the drums play back with a different sound.

 

If I load these MID files into my DAW, the Multitrack .MID file opens 13 tracks,  and the (Tone Record) Rhythm .MID file also opens 13 tracks. The Multitrack only shows three tracks (track 3, 6 and 7) with recorded information (the drum/ rhythm tracks), whereas a saved track 12 RHYTHM MID file will also show recorded Tone information in track 1.

 

Oh yes, if I want to record a drum/ rhythm with arpeggiated split keyboard bass and use the SYN START feature to initiate the recording, this only works for a Track 12 RHYTHM recording. If I try and record this combo via a Multitrack recording, only the arpeggiated bass line will start - the drums won't. I can, however, start the drums manually during recording and these will then be recorded with the other information on the System track. More strangely, I can copy and transfer a recording on Track 12 using this combo to a Multitrack recording System track.

 

I guess my main observations of the recording features are:

1. Track 11 - TONE - can only record Tones - no rhythms.

2.Track 12 - RHYTHM - can record rhythms and Tones, and also use SYNC START for drums and arpeggiated bass,

3. Multitrack 13 - 17 - Can't use SYNC START for drums and arpeggiated bass,. Arpeggiated Bass will start, but you have to manually hit the start button to get the drums going during recording.  

4. Saving and Loading TONE, RHYTHM and MULTITRACK recordings in their proprietary TRF. RRF, MRF formats works and plays back fine.

5. Saving a RHYTHM recordings in MID file format means it can only then be loaded into the USER SONG locations. The drums then play back with different sounds.

6. Saving a MULTITRACK recording in MID file format seems to lose any recorded  Solo Tone tracks. As with RHYTHM recordings saved as .MID files,  it can only be loaded into a USER SONG location and the drums play back with different sounds.

 

What I was hoping was that the ability to save recordings as MID files would then allow the recordings to be edited/ modified in a DAW, re-saved, and then loaded back into the S1000V. That would have got round the issue of there being no editing or quantizing tools in the S1000V's recording section. But it seems that the S1000V doesn't seem to be able to correctly load back in the recorded MID files it previously saved, and Multitrack MID files seem to be missing the Solo tracks of the recordings. And though the S1000V's proprietary file format saves and loads perfectly, being proprietary they cannot be read nor edited by a DAW or from what I can tell, any other MIDI editor.

 

Or maybe I am missing some things here and not understanding the Recording section correctly - any input would be gratefully received!

Edited April 7, 2022 by Chas

[Brad Saucier]

I haven't delved that deep into the sequencer yet, but what I have seen so far seems to be exactly the same as previous Casio song sequencers and MIDI recorders, where you have a proprietary system track and then you have solo tracks.  Rhythm record is the system track.  Tone record is solo tracks.  I suspect they just changed the terminology in hopes of clarifying how it works, for new users.  "System track" was a little less descriptive name.  The new menu system is more like "what do you want to record?", and when you select that, it configures and arms the sequencer for that situation.  

 

As far as saving as MIDI, previous Casio models would only convert the system (rhythm) track to MIDI if the solo (tone) tracks were empty.  I'm sure it's still the same here.  

[Chas]

Hmm, thanks for responding Brad, though I am still somewhat confused over the saving recordings as MIDI files.

 

So if I record a multi track recording using a System Track and also add Solo tracks to it, if I then save it as MIDI only the System Track gets saved? That seems to be my experience, as I saved a Multitrack recording that used a system track and also recorded Solo tracks on top, but as mentioned, only the system track gets saved as MIDI. And as said, when I import this Multitrack MIDI file into my DAW, it opens 13 separate tracks with only tracks 3, 6 and 7 having any data in them.

 

If I save a Rhythm Track 12 as a MIDI file and open it up within my DAW, then it too opens up 13 separate tracks as per a Multitrack MIDI file, but this time Track 01 has the Upper Tone information included.

 

See attached pics in next post of a Track 12 Rhythm MIDI file imported into my DAW, and also a Multitrack MIDI file imported. The enlarged tracks are those that include MIDI information.

 

 

 

[Chas]

This is a track 12 Rhythm midi file loaded into my DAW:

 

 

And this is a Multitrack midi file loaded into my DAW:

 

[Brad Saucier]

That does appear to correspond with what the manual says about it here...