Is an Expression pedal worth getting for the CT-S1000V for solo use at home?

[jasonrohrer]

I understand that if you're gigging with other musicians, being able to adjust your output volume hands-free is crucial., and that's what an Expression pedal is normally used for.

 

However, there are so many features and adjustable parameters on the CT-S1000V.... I'm wondering if there's a way to assign some of them to the Expression pedal, somehow..  For example, could you control the Cutoff of the filter?

 

The manual lists these options for the Expression Pedal:

 

1. Expression --- Adjusts the volume level independently of the part volume.
2. Part Volume --- Adjusts the part volume level.
3. Rhythm Volume --- Adjusts the rhythm volume level.
4. Master Volume --- Adjusts the overall volume of the Digital Keyboard independent of the volume knob.
5. Tempo --- Adjusts the tempo.

Numbers 2-5 are pretty straight-forward, but also not that exciting.

 

Number 1, "Expression," is not explained very clearly.  Adjusts the volume level of WHAT independent of the part volume?

 

Elsewhere in the manual, Advanced Tones are described thus:

 

"Advanced tones provide enhanced sound source control, and enable advanced expressive techniques, tone expression, and more"

 

This might imply that the Expression setting on the Expression Pedal will control some additional features of the Advanced Tones.  For example, it could control how much Pad is mixed in on New Age Piano..

 

My 12-y-o son has been using his CT-S1000V, and having a great time with it.

 

I'm just wondering if an Expression Pedal would be worth buying.... would it enhance his experience, and essentially give him an extra knob to tweak (exciting!)... or just adjust the volume (boring)?

 

And if it just adjusts the volume, Casio has missed a huge opportunity here.... I mean, the other 3 knobs are assignable to a ridiculously huge and varied list of parameters, along with Active DSP control.

 

Even just having a mode on the Expression pedal called "Knob 1" (where the pedal does the same thing as Knob 1) would be a huge improvement.

[Brad Saucier]

Welcome to the forums!  I think an expression pedal is absolutely worth buying.  It's more about musical expression than overall output volume.  I'll explain more later.  I was about the same age as your son when I got my first Casio!  

 

The 5 options in the manual is everything an expression pedal can control in the CT-S500 or 1000V.  Other Casio models like the PX-560 have assignable expression which can target many other options as you suggested, however the CT-S models are not at that level unfortunately.  

 

The first 2 options (expression and part volume) might seem similar, but differ in a very important way.

 

Part volume is the absolute volume level for a particular tone (upper 1 for example).  Part volume sets the maximum level for that tone.  It has a range of 0 to 127. 

 

Expression, on the other hand, is a relative volume controller, not absolute.  It can't increase volume beyond the level set by part volume.  It can only lower the volume from that point.  An example...

 

Set upper 1 part volume at 127 (a piano tone).  Lets layer that with another tone (a slow strings tone).  We set part volume for strings at 64 so it's a nice background behind that piano, not overpowering the piano at all.  Now setup the expression pedal to control only the strings sound (that's another subject, since the pedal can enabled for any combination of upper 1, upper 2 and lower parts for great creativity).  We set the pedal to control expression, not part volume.  We can now play piano with strings as a soft background, using the pedal to fade out and bring back strings in a musical way.  With the pedal fully engaged, the strings sound will reach full volume of 64 as we set earlier, without going beyond that.  

 

Organ tones are another excellent use case for an expression pedal.  Organ players use a pedal for musical expression since an organ is not velocity sensitive like piano is.  

 

Breath instruments are another great use for an expression pedal, like saxophone, brass, etc. 

 

36 minutes ago, jasonrohrer said:

Advanced tones provide enhanced sound source control, and enable advanced expressive techniques, tone expression, and more

 

This passage refers to tones which change their characteristics based on velocity sensitivity.  For example, some organ tones will add more drawbars when the keys are played with more velocity.  Some piano tones will add a strings pad whenever a full chord is played.  That's just a couple of examples.  

[jasonrohrer]

Ah, I see how you can use the expression pedal to control the "mix" of a layered sound.  That makes a lot of sense.  I also now see that you can control which layers/splits the pedal effects.

 

So you could, for example, have a smooth-sounding Square Synth lead as Upper 1, and a growling Sawtooth Synth lead as Upper 2, and use the Expression pedal to control the mix between them.

 

However, setting this up is probably beyond the scope of what my 12-y-o wants to do, currently.

 

I'm wondering if there are any "right out of the box" benefits to the Expression pedal.... like what if we set it to Expression, and have it only effect Upper 2.... and leave it that way permanently.

 

Will that mean that on various Advanced tones with built-in layers, the Expression pedal will automatically have an effect when he switches to one of these Advanced auto-layered tones?

 

Or will he at least have to manually set up layers for the Expression pedal, set to control Upper 2, to have an effect?

[Brad Saucier]

Advanced tones with built-in layers are entirely self contained.  Unfortunately an expression pedal can't be used to target only the extra layer within an advanced tone.  If an advanced tone is selected for upper 1, but the pedal is only enabled for upper 2, the pedal will have no effect on the advanced tone.  

 

Pedal settings are independent of tone selection.  Once a pedal is configured to apply to upper 2 for example, it will remain that way with any other tones selected for upper 2.  Pedal settings can be saved as a registration.  

 

Registration memory is designed to save keyboard setups, like taking a screenshot of most keyboard settings or the current configuration of the keyboard.  For example, if you want the pedal enabled with specific splits or layers as your example, you can configure everything as such then store that setup as a registration for recall later.  The keyboard has memory for 64 different registration setups. 

 

You could create a basic registration with piano alone, another registration for splits and layers, another with an expression pedal enabled for a particular upper or lower part, etc.  If you have a registration with pedal configured for upper 2 (as an example), that registration can be stored then recalled later and used as a template for other tones.  The pedal will apply to any tones selected for the upper or lower part for which the pedal is enabled.  

 

Expression is not only for mixing different sounds together.  It can be very effective with just a single tone to add new depth to a performance.  This is musical expression, hence the name of the effect.  A saxophone player will increase and decrease volume of their instrument for expression.  

[Joe Muscara]

Brad covers it pretty well. But I just wanted to chime in and say that expression pedals don't always just change volume. The timbre of the tone can change as well. This is commonly seen on organs. The expression pedal is an integral part of playing a Hammond organ or one of its many clones that are out there. It doesn't just make it louder.

 

 

Quote

Many people seem to think that the expression pedal on a Hammond is only used to control the volume of the organ, but this is only part of its function, it also acts as a (passive, non-linear) equalizer (EQ). When the volume is low, higher frequencies are much more attenuated (reduced) than lower ones, leading to a much bass-heavy sound and less pronounced highs. The reverse is true when the expression pedal is put to full throttle (loudest volume), which results in a much brighter sound with relatively reduced bass content.

https://www.hammondtoday.com/2016/03/21/the-hammond-expression-pedal-eq-properties/

 

Many instruments have a non-linear response to increased volume, or perhaps I should say "force," used to play it. Take Brad's example of the sax player. The player might sustain a note but blow harder as they go, changing not only the volume but the tone.  You might hear this as "growl" in this case.

 

Depending upon how each sound is programmed, an expression pedal can add a lot of… expression to a performance. I do think it could be an exciting "knob" for your son to play with.

[jasonrohrer]

My understanding is that on the CT-S500 and CT-S1000V, the "Expression" setting on Pedal 2 indeed is only limited to adjusting volume.

 

I tried it on an "Advanced" sax tone (advanced tone light on), which is very sensitive to velocity.  The Expression pedal simply modulated the volume, and didn't effect the tone at all.

 

I wish it could do more, but I don't think it does.

 

We were able to adjust the volume of Upper 2 separately from Upper 1 when we layered a sound.  You could mix two Sax sounds together this way, a smoother one, and a more "growling" one, and then use the Expression pedal to modulate between the two tonalities of sax.  However, at "full blast", you effectively have two Sax's playing a duet in unison, not a true switch-over to the growling one by itself.  Of course, the growling one will dominate sonically and "mask out" the smoother one.

 

We had good luck layering a smooth synth with a buzzy one.  The Expression pedal then almost seems to adjust the cut-off on a low-pass filter (letting the "buzz" come in or fade back out).

[tobi]

I think it's really unfortunate that an expression pedal can't control the effects like the knobs do. I hope that maybe someday a software update arrives that adds the 3 knobs to the 5 existing expression pedal options.

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by tobi

[tobi]

Is there any place where feature requests like that can be submitted to casio?

[Brad Saucier]

44 minutes ago, tobi said:

Is there any place where feature requests like that can be submitted to casio?

 

This forum.  Casio reps visit and read the site from time to time.