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[Just Alex]

Officially - no. But if you take any "user" file, with hex editor you can change the base preset sound it refers to.

But this requires some programming skills and not easily doable by any "generic" user.

[silent]

tone editing characteristics depends on the synth in question. Also some of them have custom software for you PC you can use to edit tones and waveform much better than doing it on the keyboard itself

 

 

 

[AlenK]

On 2/4/2023 at 4:48 PM, IrreverentHippie said:

tone editing characteristics depends on the synth in question. Also some of them have custom software for you PC you can use to edit tones and waveform much better than doing it on the keyboard itself

All correct. In this case, however, the synth in question is the PX-560 and Casio has not to my knowledge released such an editor. Given the touch-screen graphical user interface on the keyboard itself, there likely wasn’t much of a projected need for such. Unlike, for example, the XW synths (P1 and G1), which have a primarily text-based user interface (in addition to the real-time controls, of course). 

[silent]

On 2/6/2023 at 7:56 AM, AlenK said:

All correct. In this case, however, the synth in question is the PX-560 and Casio has not to my knowledge released such an editor. Given the touch-screen graphical user interface on the keyboard itself, there likely wasn’t much of a projected need for such. Unlike, for example, the XW synths (P1 and G1), which have a primarily text-based user interface (in addition to the real-time controls, of course). 

Note that some characteristics can be externally controlled via MIDI as well, beyond the Tone editing or internal parameters of the synth

[silent]

They would be in the "synth" function on the synth

On 2/6/2023 at 7:56 AM, AlenK said:

All correct. In this case, however, the synth in question is the PX-560 and Casio has not to my knowledge released such an editor. Given the touch-screen graphical user interface on the keyboard itself, there likely wasn’t much of a projected need for such. Unlike, for example, the XW synths (P1 and G1), which have a primarily text-based user interface (in addition to the real-time controls, of course). 

 

[AlenK]

2 hours ago, IrreverentHippie said:

Note that some characteristics can be externally controlled via MIDI as well, beyond the Tone editing or internal parameters of the synth

Yes. True of the PX-560 as well. The PX-560 MIDI Implementation document describes the controllable parameters.

Unfortunately, the PX-560 does not provide complete MIDI control of all parameters in the Hex Layer synth engine. That is unlike the XW synths, the PX-5s and the MZ-X keyboards, whose MIDI implementation is far more complete. However, on those instruments complete control of the Hex Layer synthesis engine requires using Sysex, which is beyond most people.
 

(Note that the XW synths allow complete control of the Solo Synth engine in those keyboards through NRPN commands, which enabled Mike Martin to create an iPad editor for the solo synth engine on those keyboards. This is in addition to the PC and Mac editing program that Casio provides for the XW synths, which can edit all of the instruments’ synthesis modes as well as other parameters in the instruments. There is a similar editor for the PX-5s.) 

[silent]

On 2/10/2023 at 12:59 AM, AlenK said:

Yes. True of the PX-560 as well. The PX-560 MIDI Implementation document describes the controllable parameters.

Unfortunately, the PX-560 does not provide complete MIDI control of all parameters in the Hex Layer synth engine. That is unlike the XW synths, the PX-5s and the MZ-X keyboards, whose MIDI implementation is far more complete. However, on those instruments complete control of the Hex Layer synthesis engine requires using Sysex, which is beyond most people.
 

(Note that the XW synths allow complete control of the Solo Synth engine in those keyboards through NRPN commands, which enabled Mike Martin to create an iPad editor for the solo synth engine on those keyboards. This is in addition to the PC and Mac editing program that Casio provides for the XW synths, which can edit all of the instruments’ synthesis modes as well as other parameters in the instruments. There is a similar editor for the PX-5s.) 

Honestly I prefer the older waveshaper synths like the WK-3800 (which had 4 layer tones, although at reduced polyphony) and WK-1800. Even if the envelope presets on the WK-1800 are not well documented. (someone needs to make a reference table for programming that thing)

Also I think Hex Layer is a lot better on the MZ arrangers.  they were some of the best synths Casio made, too bad there aren't any new ones.

 

The PX probably controls it's synth setting very similarly to the older WK-1800 synth. (which uses a 1990s synth engine and is from 2000)

 

 

[AlenK]

On 2/12/2023 at 7:20 AM, IrreverentHippie said:

Honestly I prefer the older waveshaper synths like the WK-3800 (which had 4 layer tones, although at reduced polyphony) and WK-1800. Even if the envelope presets on the WK-1800 are not well documented. (someone needs to make a reference table for programming that thing)

Also I think Hex Layer is a lot better on the MZ arrangers.  they were some of the best synths Casio made, too bad there aren't any new ones.

 

The PX probably controls it's synth setting very similarly to the older WK-1800 synth. (which uses a 1990s synth engine and is from 2000)
 

The WK-3800 and WK-1800 keyboards based on ZPI could do waveshaping (which is a very specific form of synthesis)? That’s news to me. Tell me more.

 

I agree about the MZ-X keyboards having the best version of Hex Layers, if only because that implementation can produce monophonic sounds. Previous incarnations of the Hex Layer engine were strictly polyphonic. I wish the PX-560 could do true monophonic sounds but alas. 
 

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by AlenK

[silent]

They are using it (and some directly played samples) as their synthesis method. also, the WK-1800 uses A2 and not ZPI (even though the WK-1800 is still probably a waveshaper, it just uses a slightly different method)

 

The WK-8000/3800 (ZPI) just uses a polynomial function... AKA very complex math that I do not understand because I am not a DSP.

Also, Waveshapers can also be wave-table synths, as all that they need is something to store the data used for waveshaping.

36 minutes ago, AlenK said:

The WK-3800 and WK-1800 keyboards based on ZPI could do waveshaping (which is a very specific form of synthesis)? That’s news to me. Tell me more.

 

I agree about the MZ-X keyboards having the best version of Hex Layers, if only because that implementation can produce monophonic sounds. Previous incarnations of the Hex Layer engine were strictly polyphonic. 
 

 

 

[AlenK]

16 hours ago, IrreverentHippie said:

They are using it (and some directly played samples) as their synthesis method. also, the WK-1800 uses A2 and not ZPI (even though the WK-1800 is still probably a waveshaper, it just uses a slightly different method)

 

The WK-8000/3800 (ZPI) just uses a polynomial function... AKA very complex math that I do not understand because I am not a DSP.

Also, Waveshapers can also be wave-table synths, as all that they need is something to store the data used for waveshaping.

 

I stand corrected on the WK-1800. I assumed wrongly about its use of ZPI. I know hardly anything about ZPI and even less about A2. All I can find about ZPI is some marketing fluff from Casio. Is there anything technical about ZPI or A2 out there? For instance, how did you learn that the keyboards you mentioned do waveshaping? 

[silent]

Completely by accident while researching wavetable systems...

7 hours ago, AlenK said:

I stand corrected on the WK-1800. I assumed wrongly about its use of ZPI. I know hardly anything about ZPI and even less about A2. All I can find about ZPI is some marketing fluff from Casio. Is there anything technical about ZPI or A2 out there? For instance, how did you learn that the keyboards you mentioned do waveshaping? 

I was looking around and I was looking at info on PD and I looked at the main distortion synthesis page on wikipedia, and I discovered waveshapers, an then I learned more about them, and then I discovered they could use wavetables...

and you know how it goes from there