Casio Privia PX-S3100 and PX-S1100 - size matters

[Mike S]

Casio gets more and more innovative, and the PX-S3100/S1100 offer a lot for the money. Notably, the slimline shape is attractive and useful for many consumers. The only shame is that they only come in an 88-key version. I'm a little surprised that Casio is missing the opportunity to make a digital piano which is short as well as slim.

 

In many threads all over the WWW, I'm reading comments by frustrated pianists who can't find 73-key or 61-key digital pianos with fully graded weighted actions.  At present, I only know of one portable piano and one stage piano which have 73 keys with such an action. So little choice, and nothing for the 61-key brigade! There are a few other stage pianos with weighted actions, but these are not graded. The assumption seems to be that anybody purchasing a piano with fewer than an 88 keys is really a keyboardist playing other sounds most of the time, but that's incorrect - some of us do need to practise/rehearse/perform in a pianistic fashion on a shorter piano. It's typically because we need to travel a lot, using small cars, boats, RVs, whatever, but in some cases the practice room or stage is too small for an 88. And even though some of us want to play 88-key digital pianos most of the time, that doesn't stop us needing shorter pianos sometimes.

 

Does anybody else here feel like I do? Is there a counter argument?

Edited February 22, 2023 by Mike S
word omitted

[Jokeyman123]

Nord has at least one 73-key hammer action keyboard but pretty expensive. Roland made a 64-key weighted action board-the RD 64, almost impossible to find now, out of production. Nice kit with their ivory-feel key action. Why they discontinued it, guess it didn't roll in the profits but was a great idea.  I think it was originally almost as much as full size weighted RD Roland stage piano. I see a few used on eBay out of Japan but still not exactly cheap. Still...looks tempting.

 

Have to partially blame Fatar-as this Italian based company provides the keys for almost all the major keyboard makers, except for the Yamahas, our Casios and (possibly) the Korgs although I have a Korg SP-500 with "their" RH II piano action which is in reality-a Fatar! I know, I took it apart to clean it up. And Fatar does not make a weighted piano action key assembly with anything smaller than an 88 key span, for anybody. Most manufacturers don't seem to find it (I guess) profitable enough to tool up their own weighted keys. Look at Ensoniq-have an entire legacy of weighted 76-key keyboards, I had a few-and these too, were Fatar TP-10 assemblies. Studio Logic had a 76-key weighted instrument THE VMK-76 but it was only a controller, weighed a ton and is also pretty hard to find now. It looks identical to the Ensoniqs of that time-so probably also a Fatar TP-10.  I don't think I have ever come across a weighted 61-key instrument and it certainly would be useful. My back would be glad.....

Edited February 24, 2023 by Jokeyman123

[AlenK]

Is there a counter argument? How about the fact that a 61-, 73- or 76-key digital piano can’t accurately reproduce the feel of playing an 88-note graded hammer action piano. You either restrict yourself to playing the “natural” note range of the shorter keyboard or you use some octave-shift buttons to shift the range up or down as required. The former restricts what music you can play and the latter would feel unnatural, partly because you would need a third hand to shift octaves and partly because the weight of the keys won’t feel right for pitches accessed via the octave-shift buttons. 

[Jokeyman123]

Look what I found....!

https://duesn.com/pr/Studiologic-Fatar-VMK-161-PLUS-61-Key-MIDI-Controller-w--Weighted-Keys--1390214169041

 

Not that I'm buying this although it looks very solid-and yes AlenK I agree with you-for full 2-handed playing-nothing beats an 88-key action IMO. Try playing any Chopin/Lizst piece, anything originally composed on an 88. Just midi-ing (is that a word, well now it is) my PX560 to the XW-makes the XW an entirely different instrument.

 

The other rather nifty use for this-I split the PX560 88 keys to 44 on each side-now I have a double manual Hammond organ in front of me, very nice. The Ferrofish B-4000+ module fits perfectly with this scenario-allows for 2 different midi channels, 2 different tones-but even without that, there is a nice collection of Hammond sounds in the PX560 which are quickly configured across a keyboard split. I also like the extra keys when composing-alot easier to have a huge collection of drum and percussion sounds across 88 keys, and easier to allocate key zones for different instruments again, laid out across 88 keys simultaneously, rather than having to switch different tones around. I uploaded one hex layer for the 560 like this-managed to fit a bass, organ, e piano, drum set (small) and muted trumpet across 88 keys-surprising what one can do when limitations are imposed, something I learned from the minimalist composers.

 

Many symphonies must have been composed-at the the piano for this very reason. 88 keys cover the range from contrabass to piccolos and beyond if one is an arranger.

 

But yes, these VMK keyboards do look very tempting except I am sure these are not lightweights!

[Jokeyman123]

And now, for something completely different-but not available in the US-another Italian design, maybe Fatar keys inside, like the Dexibells. and has ben around since 2014-I neve saw these before. Big money though. Thomann Europe has these. Some mixed reviews on the sounds, but looks pretty nice. Someone is paying attention to our posts?

 

https://www.thomann.de/ie/viscount_physis_piano_k5_ex.htm

Edited March 2, 2023 by Jokeyman123

[AlenK]

On 2/28/2023 at 3:07 PM, Jokeyman123 said:

Look what I found....!

https://duesn.com/pr/Studiologic-Fatar-VMK-161-PLUS-61-Key-MIDI-Controller-w--Weighted-Keys--1390214169041

 

“The StudioLogic VMK161 Plus Weighted Key Controller Keyboard provides 61 hammer action keys to purist musicians that refuse to sacrifice the feel of a piano, but require the control and flexibility of synth controller.”

Personally, it’s not for me. For synth and organ sounds, I prefer a much lighter action that a simulated hammer-action keyboard. Something like the semi-weighted 76-key keyboard that was on the Rhodes Chroma and later the NED Synclavier would be great as a middle ground between a light synth action and a weighted hammer action. Alas, I don’t think a comparable action has appeared on anything released since those instruments came out. Or if it has, it appeared on an instrument I can’t afford. 

 

[Jokeyman123]

AlenK...

 

That is true-there are many 76-key semi-weighted boards now-almost all the major keyboard makers make these-and probably all fatars anyway-and yes-the prices are pretty crazy, seems worse lately rather than better. repeating myself-but I have noticed one major company has reverted to a much cheaper plastic-action instrument-but not at a cheaper plastic instrument price. i don't disparage companies so I will not say which company this is, but I was unpleasantly surprised when I saw the price, and what was inside for keys. My old GEM S3 had one of the best spring-loaded semi-weighted boards, and we know what happened to them. My much older SY77 has a rather unique and very playable semi-weighted keyboard which has lasted me many years. Most manufacturers are not bothering to make these types of key actions anymore, at least for not less than 1-2000 US dollars mostly.  My much restored Alesis Fusion has a Fatar (but 88 key) weighted action-but curiously, this is one of the lightest action weighted keys I've played-must be what is now called the TP40L for "light", I can execute piano or organ passages on it pretty well.

 

The 61 key Alesis Fusion used another Fatar-which is supposedly one of the better 61-key non-weighted called the TP-9 which I have not played. Partially why I picked up one of the 88 keys-that and the price was right-but I had to do extensive work to get it back to normal operation, i found out the hard way why these failed in the marketplace-but the TP40 is still being used in just about every weighted 88 key workstation even today.