Envelope Programming

[pkd23]

Would greatly appreciate some help programming envelopes in the PX-5S.

I'm familiar with ADSR envelope concepts, and have been programming them for years. Sometimes I'm playing a Stage Setting on my PX-5, and want to make some adjustments, so I dive into Edit, and unfortunately am not able to get the results I'm looking for.

The Tutorial (manual) does not offer much practical help. Surprisingly, the Forum does not seem to have much on this topic, nor do Mike's (otherwise great) videos. I've tried the reverse engineering approach (turning things off), but the behavior is not what what I would expect. Not complaining, just looking for help.

Part of the problem is that a given Stage Setting with 2 hex, and 2 Tone Zones has (by my count) 418 envelope parameters! That's a bunch.

So, are there some strategies for programming envelopes? And I'm confused by having parameters that go from negative to positive values; if that's relative to an initial setting, how do you find and set it?

Some basic tips would be greatly appreciated, Learning by trial and error is great, but has limits.

Many thanks,

PeredD

[Brad Saucier]

There are Hex Layer tones and then there are Melody tones (everything not a hex or drum set).  Melody tones will have the positive and negative values in the editing menu.  This is because the user only has the ability to offset the "hidden" preset values.  Hex tones give the user absolute control over the values.  The number you see is what it's set to.  

 

Try this.  

• Press Bank>Go to 0-0 ConcertGrand.
• Press the hex layer button
• Press yes and no button at the same time.  You should be on PX Hex Tone 00
• Press Edit>Tone>Layer Edit>Amp>Press the Zone minus button to select ALL layers
• Scroll down to Initial Level>Use knob 2 to adjust to 000
• Scroll down to attack time>use the knob to adjust to 127
• You have now edited part of the amp envelope.

 

That should get you started. 

[pkd23]

Thanks Brad, for the response.

I get what you did in your sequence: set all Layers of a Hex Tone to program identical values, and initialize Initial Value = 0, and Attack Time = 127.

I'm still unclear about the Melody Tone parameters. For example, for a given Tone, Amp envelope, I can set Initial Value = 0, then set Attack Time = -10, and set Attack Level = -10. What does a negative Time mean? Is that 10 less than some preset (unknown) time? Also, how can I have a negative Level, if I set the Initial Value = 0?

[Brad Saucier]

You are correct.  A negative value is that number less of the "hidden" preset value.   When the preset value is already minimum, a negative value will have no effect.  Same can happen in the other direction as well.  

 

"Initial" level is the amp level the envelope starts out at.  

[pkd23]

Ok. This is good progress. Couple more questions:

For a given Amp envelope, in a single Layer of a Hex Tone, we have the following parameters:

IL AT AL D1T D1L ...where DT = Delay Time, and DL = Delay Level

D2T D2L

D3T D3L

R1T R1L ...and RT = Release Time, and RL = Release Level

R2T

1.) How do we get a Sustain Level, since there is no Sustain parameter?

(I'm guessing we set D1L = D2L = D3L?)

2.) What is the significance of R2T, since there is no R2L?

[Brad Saucier]

Correction. D = "decay".  Not "delay". 

 

 

Decay is what allows the amp level to either decay or sustain during the time you hold the key down.  To get a sustain, set decay level and time to 127. 

 

Release is what controls amp level after you "release" the key.  Release time/level 1 is your normal release.   Release 2 is an additional release time if desired for key off.  Release 2 level is fixed at zero so it's not adjustable.   With this additional release, you can have a sound sustain some after key release before it decays fast.

 

Note: There is a release 2 time and level for the filter envelope.  Amp envelope only has release 2 time.  

[pkd23]

Of course. Great catch, Brad. Decay, not Delay.

Envelopes 101. ADSR: Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release.

....so, I've been playing with Sustain, and was wondering if Decay levels have to be = 127, which means it's at it's highest (loudest) level. It is possible to set the Attack Level to, say 100, then set subsequent Decay levels to, say 50, which produces a lower (quieter) Sustain level. The classic plucking timbre.

Inversely, if Attack level = 50, and Decay levels are higher (127), then the Decay is behaving more like an Attack. Very flexible.

And fixing Release 2 Level to zero makes perfect sense, as you want the note to end with silence, at some point. BTW, having 2 Release levels can produce some very nice timbres, almost reverb-like, if the second Release Level is lower than the first.

Anyway, thanks so much for all your help. I'm finally getting how PX-5S envelopes work.