PX-5S: Features you're glad ARE included. Features you wish WERE included.

[fargus]

valuable resource; bookmarked

busy reading

a bit closer to reversing opinion of rotary sim - still missing rotary element differentiation

an old b3 guy still eager to learn new tricks - will attempt a negotiation with pedal 2 edit

 

bought this keyboard sight unseen based on recovery of a WK-7500 from a young man who simply gave up on the instrument before any serious attempt to deal with the learning curve

 

very curious about how young players can be attracted to these powerful yet affordable instruments

[Display Name]

Welcome, Fargus! 

Yes there is a bit of a learning curve (good term) with the PX-5S - but there are many rich rewards to be had for those who plunge the depths.  I've found the PC/MAC Data Editor to be an invaluable  tool for visualizing the signal flow and deconstructing the Stage Settings - highly recommended. 

[fargus]

Thanks, Scott.

 

Another pro:

leveraging social media to flatten the learning curve a bit based on community input

 

Is the design of this instrument based primarily on north american input?

[Display Name]

Thanks, Scott.

 

Another pro:

leveraging social media to flatten the learning curve a bit based on community input

 

Is the design of this instrument based primarily on north american input?

 

I will let Mike speak to that... even though it says "STAFF" on my avatar, that refers to my status here on the board - I don't work for Casio. I help Mike with this forum and Facebook.  I help answer questions and promote the products and artists because I am passionate about what they are doing.  I am kind of like a civilian cheerleader for the XW's and PX-5S.   

 

[bhaymes]

Had my PX-5S a couple of days and have to say it's a knockout instrument..Also great that Mike Martin is such a hands-on guy with this keyboard..Fantastic

 

One thing I love is that Wurli eps ( my favourite keyboard on the planet) are very strong..A couple of the firmware 1.11 wurli stage setups are sensational...With too many manufacturers Wurli comes a distant third after Rhodes, and the loathsome DX eps!

 

One thing I would love is for the audio inputs be able to access system DSP effects...I'll be running an outboard "Clonewheel" organ module and would love to feed it's output through PX's delays, phasing etc...

would this ever be possible with a firmware update??

 

Also I guess it would be great to have a more convincing Organ sim with 9 sliders, but I guess that's for another keyboard!!..

[Display Name]

Hi and welcome to the forums! Make sure you join our Facebook group - the address is in my signature line.....
 

One thing I would love is for the audio inputs be able to access system DSP effects...I'll be running an outboard "Clonewheel" organ module and would love to feed it's output through PX's delays, phasing etc...

would this ever be possible with a firmware update??

 

 

I would say no... if you look at the signal flow it appears that the audio inputs are inserted after the common DSP but before the master EQ and COMPRESSOR.



 

[maarkr]

While it is good for future design and marketing to get input on suggested improvements, I am tired of hearing the 'new age, I want it all now' people complain about "why don't you do this on the next version" or "I'd buy it if it did this"... 

I think it's an awesome product and of course, we can't put ALL features in one machine... The hardware and software group must have spent many hours and R&D to come up with this, so you can't make a new "wonderboard" with the existing production.  You can't please everyone.  Casio has come a long way and Mike has done wonders supporting the owners, especially compared to all other brands.  Don't come out with anything else spectacular in the near future cause I can't afford it all.

[Display Name]

Casio is very good at not letting mission creep and feature bloat in...

Hiroshi Iwase was the Head of Planning for the XW synths.. this is a quote from an interview that I think is very telling about how Casio develops a product:
"As is inevitable in the development of any electronic musical instrument, we had all kinds of ideas concerning functions we wanted to pursue, and the number of ideas kept piling up during the development process. But if we had followed up on every idea, we would have worn ourselves out and ended up with an instrument that was both difficult play and too expensive for our customers. We avoided these problems by eliminating some ideas and concentrating on constructing an integrated musical instrument, rather trying to add superfluous new functions. This selectivity led to an optimal concept for the XW Series."

[bhaymes]

Hi and welcome to the forums! Make sure you join our Facebook group - the address is in my signature line.....

 

 

I would say no... if you look at the signal flow it appears that the audio inputs are inserted after the common DSP but before the master EQ and COMPRESSOR.

 

Thanks Scott..That's cleared that up.....Also point taken Maarkr, we do live in a world where people seem to expect too much!...I for one was not complaining.I think this is a terrific board. Well done Casio.

[sgrahovac]

I've had my px5s for about a month and half and I have been really loving it! 

 

PROS

• I love how configurable all the tones and stages are.  There is a lot of possibilities!
• It works great as a midi controller or an external control surface.
• The sound quality is amazing
• The feel of the keys is great.
• It's lots of fun playing with the different sounds and effects!
• For sequencing, it works great with midi editors (can simultaneously record from midi channels 1-4 as alternative to phrase record).
• Love the synth sounds

 

Firmware enhancements I would love in the PX5S keyboard itself

• Pressing and holding the arpeggio button is a bit too slow if a quick on-the-fly tweak of current appeggio is desired.  A faster way to get to that menu would improve the creative flow.
• When playing and smf file, there is no way to do anything else (change stage, tempo, etc)
• A midi clock is supported, but unfortunately it does seem like a midi timecode is supported.  I use Acid pro and it would help me use the px5s as a master device.
• Phrase record only plays sounds using zone 1.  It would be great to have a way to make it use other zones instead if desired.
• When playing a phrase, it would be nice it could sync up somehow with the arpeggio being played.
• When playing a phrase, no midi data is outputted so I cannot record using a midi editor
• During phrase record, the automatic end usually leaves an extra measure which makes looping impossible.  Having some way to truncate the end would solve this issue (for example, a way to set number of measures).

This part may be out of place, but here are things I wish were in editor:

• Changing name of phrases, songs, arpeggios seems only possible using px5s knobs
• No way to convert phrase files to midi files that I can tell
• No way to edit arpeggios in the data editor
• No way to convert midi file to song sequence
• Perhaps I am missing it, but I see no way to set tempo in the data editor for the current stage.

Other minor wishes:

• An Android tablet or phone app to more easily set/edit stage thru USB midi on the fly.
• Source code to the px5s data editor itself so it can forever evolve and improve by the community

Thanks again for releasing this great product!

[Choppin]

To start off, I think it's a great digital piano keyboard.  The weighted keys, the texture of the keys, and the weight of the keyboard all plus plus plus.  The cost relative to what you get is great.

 

* The piano and electric piano sounds are very good.

* The sliders and knobs for live control are really neat.  Takes a little getting used to but it is a huge plus and lots of fun.

* The direct recording to the USB drive - fantastic!  It's such a simple idea but so useful.

* Conceptually, the phrases seem awesome.  I haven't delved into them deeply so I'm only going on some observation and light experimentation, what I've read, and what others have said.  Programing the phrase on the keyboard is so-so.  The real power that I've tested, is in using midi files and converting them through the editor.  You can program drum tracks for example, or a series of midi controls over time that just change the settings on the keyboard as you play along in real time.

* The stage setting concept is quite interesting.  It's not only a change in patch, but a whole series of keyboard settings.  It makes live performance quite manageable

 

On the other side of the coin:

* The synth sounds and controls don't seem robust.  A lot of the instrument samples and generated tones are thin, and seem to be on the middle to lower quality side.  The PX-5s is definitely a stage piano first before being a synth.  [EDIT] (the thin sounds I'm speaking of are more about the General Midi sounds that by themselves aren't very impressive.  Add the layering and effects through stage settings and they become more formidable) [/EDIT]

* The organ sounds could use improvement.

* As I play with the px-5s more, I find some of the physical aspects a bit wanting: the speed at which the keys come up after being pressed is very slow.  There are some "work withs" not work arounds per se, that help - the hammer timing and the touch setting - but don't really correct the situation. 

* The pitch bend wheel is also very slow when returning to center.  There's just a little drag on it that makes it hard to do quick bends.

 

 

Overall, it's a very impressive piece of equipment.  I get the feel of it being "first generation" of it's type and there's going to be even more great things to come with the next units in the series.  I hope to see some changes in the firmware for the PX-5s that correct some of the issues that have been mentioned in various places in the forums.  But in the end, this is a well thought out keyboard.

 

The main things I would want to see improvements on would be the action (control speed and resistance), and the bend wheel speed.

[Mike Martin]

 

On the other side of the coin:

* The synth sounds and controls don't seem robust.  A lot of the instrument samples and generated tones are thin, and seem to be on the middle to lower quality side.  The PX-5s is definitely a stage piano first before being a synth.

 

Sorry but I couldn't disagree more. Assuming you have v1.10 installed, start with Stage Setting 7-7 and listen to the quality of the filters, utilize every knob and slider.  Starting from such a simple sound you can make so much from this. 

If that isn't enough then get into the downloads.  Find another synth that can pull off something like this LIVE.  Do listen to the audio demo that is linked.

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/files/file/165-orbiting/

 

Check out the review at Harmony Central.  They think we made a mistake calling it Privia because the synth side is so strong:

 

http://www.harmonycentral.com/t5/Expert-Reviews/Casio-PX-5S/ba-p/35927051

[Choppin]

Thanks Mike,

 

I think I misspoke on that point!  Neat stuff!

[SonnyDaye]

I started this topic in January. I had no idea that there would someday be almost 7,000 views (more than twice as many views as any of the highest viewed topics)!

I hope Mike and Casio appreciate the topic and find all the suggestions useful to create the perfect keyboard that the keyboard community is looking for.

To show their appreciation, they should name the 2014 version of the PX-5S (PX-6S?) after me.

But....I'll settle for just seeing a lot of the suggestions implimented in the next model (or even better, in a firmware update) and I'll just pretend the "S" in the model number stands for Sonny, and I'll remain anonymous!

(-:

Great job guys! Keep up the good work!

Hope my topic has been helpful to you.

Sonny Daye

[bottlegreg]

How about a dedicated split button, I'm surprised no one has asked for this?

[jaspeter]

I'm finding that there are some limitations or boundaries I'd like to push with the PX-5S.  Some of those additions would not be trivial to implement, but others might.  I'd like to call those "low hanging fruit" that I'm hopeful might show up in a firmware update.

Among these "low hanging fruit" is the number of available controllers.  Kind of like when I got my first personal computer ("when am I ever going to fill a 1.2GB hard drive?"), I'm finding that I'd like 9 or 18 sliders.  Naturally, you can't go adding that kind of hardware to the keyboard, but what if you could control whether or not the slider value got reset when switching to a different stage setting?

Say I put two duplicate stage settings in memory and I'd like to use 12 sliders.  If one could specify (in each stage setting) whether or not to keep the slider values from the previous setting, then magically you'd get another 6 sliders simply by switching stage settings!  Unfortunately, this still results in a nasty cutoff between stage settings when using hex layers, but what if...

What if you could control any number of the remaining twelve MIDI channels from each zone?  Yes, you no longer have the DSP and editing features of the four zones, but it could result in some nice, fat sounds!

I should mention some of the many things that I'm grateful are included (I may have already mentioned earlier in the thread):
-  The textured keys have a nice feel.  That was a nice touch! (pun intended?)
-  I love having the PC editor!  It's not a substitute for being able to edit from the board, but it's nice for me to see all the parameters at once.
-  The phrase playback capability literally sold me on this instrument.
-  The ability to edit the drum sets and sounds individually is awesome!
-  The fact that stage settings save new tone adjustments within them is an unexpected pleasure.
-  I use the 1/8" stereo audio input for transcribing tunes all the time from my smartphone (I use the ASC app, "Audio Speed Changer").

My biggest wish at this time, however, is to be able to assign different phrases and WAV files to different keys on the keyboard.  They wouldn't even have to play concurrently (although it would be amazing if they could).  The way it's currently set up doesn't lend itself well to using WAVs during performances, for me, at least.

I'm still continually impressed by the PX-5S!

[jaspeter]

Another easy - but potentially nifty - feature would be to have a "Load Setlist" or "Stage Setting Load All" selection under the Media - Load menu that would load only the 100 stage settings, but not the phrases, arpeggios, and other stuff.  I'm finding that I am quickly losing track of phrases when switching between setlists, and a thousand phrase slots has, so far, been plenty to store all my phrases.  That way, I could create a setlist of existing stage settings for gigs instead of having to make sure all my phrases are saved in a Save All file as well.  For that matter, each selection under "Load" could have an "All" setting, although the applications of that aren't immediately evident to me.

[PianoManChuck]

A simple feature that I'd LOVE more than anything... whether its on the PX-5 or other pro Privia board... is a simple locking mechanism.  It could be a smoked plastic (or metal) cover that hinges on to the back, covers the entire top (keys, knobs, buttons, sliders), and has a keyed locking mechanism or mechanism for an external padlock.  Many of my gigs take place at the same place (ie: 3 or 4 nights in a row at the same restaurant or club or lounge).  If I had a locking mechanism, I could leave the unit there since I'm coming back the next day.  This would save me the loading/unloading from the car, and the setup/breakdown from the stage... and I wouldn't have to worry about curious (sometimes intoxicated) humans with drink in one hand, and food in the other "checking out" the keys!

 

I'm sure those at home with toddlers or curious cats might also put a feature like this into good use!

 

Casio should think about this... it could be an "optional accessory" that could be added on to any newer unit designed to accept such an option.

[User 29303]

yes but the samples are bad and really it ´s hard to program out a nice clean Guitar or Strat Like !  of course i am talking only about the Clean Guitar Sample ... maybe an A.I.R implementation for Guitar Sound !

 

[Hugh O Kelly]

Is it just me but one thing I really don't like

is the sloped and angled sides.

I hate them lower than the keys

Just waiting for an accident to happen.

[PianoManChuck]

Is it just me but one thing I really don't like

is the sloped and angled sides.

I hate them lower than the keys

Just waiting for an accident to happen.

Its just you

[wurlyfan]

yes but the samples are bad and really it ´s hard to program out a nice clean Guitar or Strat Like ! of course i am talking only about the Clean Guitar Sample ... maybe an A.I.R implementation for Guitar Sound !

I'd have to agree here, because when comparing the fidelity of the sounds in the PX-5S to say my Kurzweil PC3LE6 which is in a similar price range here in Australia ($2,000 retail) the Casio sounds seem to be sampled at a much lower bit rate and don't sound as clean and crisp.

Now, while some people may be really disappointed with this, I tend to see the PX-5S keyboard as the ultimate excersise in compromise by the Casio engineers. I mean we have so many features packaged into a board featuring 88 superbly weighted keys with crazy polyphony limits, making it an amazing gigging instrument. Forget lugging a Hammond & Leslie to gigs, for some of us older folk, even lugging a Kurzweil or Roland is too much

What I'd really like to see is the ability to turn off polyphony so when you play solo instruments like woodwinds and some retro synth sounds the phrasing is more authentic. For example, think of playing the synth solo in the classic 'Nutbush City Limits'

Finally I want to add that this is one rare moment where I have not experienced buyers remorse and I've owned a lot of boards in the last 35 years.

[Choppin]

 

Now, while some people may be really disappointed with this, I tend to see the PX-5S keyboard as the ultimate excersise in compromise by the Casio engineers. I mean we have so many features packaged into a board featuring 88 superbly weighted keys with crazy polyphony limits, making it an amazing gigging instrument. Forget lugging a Hammond & Leslie to gigs, for some of us older folk, even lugging a Kurzweil or Roland is too much

 

I agee with the idea but wouldn't word it as a compromise.  The Px-5s does "it's thing" which is offering a host of synthesizer functions to an already incredible stage piano.  I don't see it as trying to include or imitate the functionality of various existing synths and pianos.  The stage settings present templates of ways to play or create sounds that emulate what one is used to from some existing equipment.  The Casio Px-5s offers it's own options.  I think people get so used to what they have and know, that they have trouble changing the way they think about something new; and if they don't see button "x" then there's a problem.

 

It took me some toying, experimenting, and really digging in (though I've only just scratched the surface) to really appreciate this instrument.  I must say, I'm starting to love the built in song sequencer.  It becomes really easy to program once you get the hang of it.  The cool thing is, I can take apart any midi file using the Editor and save the parts into separate phrases.  I can combine and recombine any kind of mix of parts I want using the pattern builder in the song sequencer .  

 

If I don't want to go to those lengths, I can just play a midi file directly off of the USB drive or from an external software sequencer.  In today's world, if one could afford to buy this keyboard, it's likely that they have a laptop or a desktop computer of some kind (especially if they are on these forums!) and therefore have access to plenty of free midi software complete with sequencers that can drive the Px-5s.  

 

   

 

Mau Van, on 28 Nov 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

 

yes but the samples are bad and really it ´s hard to program out a nice clean Guitar or Strat Like !  of course i am talking only about the Clean Guitar Sample ... maybe an A.I.R implementation for Guitar Sound !

 

I kinda had this impression at first.  But now I have a different way of looking at things.  Using the Hex layers, one can build whatever sounds they desire, or close to it.  There are 418 wave partials/samples that can be chosen, layered, filtered, pitch enveloped, amp enveloped, individually within a tone.  It takes a good ear, some practice, and some experimenting, but I have no doubt a strat sound could be built.   The hard thing about it is the listening.  You have to hear what you need and make small adjustments.  For example, the type of jazz guitar sound I might like would probably be a combination of a fingered bass sound, the attack of the clean guitar turned down a bit just for a little pop, a bit of a sine wave for a little hollowness, and maybe include the actual jazz guitar wave, that kicks up in volume depending on the velocity.  I'd have to mess around with the frequency filters and envelopes a bit, but the possibilities are all there.

 

The Px-5s is meant to be totally played with and customized by the user.  The whole concept of the stage settings is to encourage the musician to set up their songs for their gigs however they want.  Don't be afraid to spin every dial, change every slider, mess with every tone and stage setting.  If you really screw things up, there's plenty of downloads to get your stage settings back to default.  You can even initialize the keyboard if you have to.  

 

 

Another easy - but potentially nifty - feature would be to have a "Load Setlist" or "Stage Setting Load All" selection under the Media - Load menu that would load only the 100 stage settings, but not the phrases, arpeggios, and other stuff.  I'm finding that I am quickly losing track of phrases when switching between setlists, and a thousand phrase slots has, so far, been plenty to store all my phrases.

There is a Load All Data selection.  Inversely, there's a Save All.  You can store the state of the entire machine at once, and load it at once.  So everything would be as it was for whatever set list you save.

[dgrennan]

I've had my PX5S for about a month now.  In general I am happy with the keyboard, and have been able to dial in the sounds I need.  I plan on using it at some gigs where I would normally carry around Kronos X 88 in a case.  The lighter weight will make a big difference.

 

A couple of things I wish it had:

1. auxiliary output - would be very usefull to me to have another set of outputs

2. recognition of wav filenames for playback (instead of having to be takexx.wav) - this is very dissapointing as I use wav backing tracks.  I hope this can be changed in an update. *

3. more stage settings in memory - I would like to have more than 100 stage settings available at once.

 

In general, I find it a really great keyboard and it does compare in alot of ways with much more expensive gear. 

 

Dave

[ultra.klick]

I want to have a  S Y N T H E S I Z E R  with 256-polyphony !

With the multipoint-shaping-possibilities of PX-Hexlayers and the other helpful stuff of XW .

Fully editable with PC/Mac/Android . The PX nearly was concepted as the BIGGEST Synthesizer in World !

Thanks to Hirsoshi Iwase ?

But at least became only a beautiful Masterkeyboard ...

 

 

CASIO-CONCEPTS : ??

I cannot see a casio-concept behind this 3 items . I sit a week and compared the possibilities . The G1 is offered as

"Groove-Keyboard" , but you can only see a nearly fully editable Synthesizer (on left side) with much more synth-waves then the others. The P1-"sound" is offered as an crazySynthesizer , but i cannot see were the synth is .

If you compare the editors and want a synth , you buy XW-series with only 64-polyphony .

So i see , in EU the prices are much more higher than in USA , you get one P1 plusG1 for one PX .

So i bought now P1+G1 . Both on the way to me . I will get much more fun with this than with a Korg Krome - for the same price and same polyphony .

 

On the other hand i see a lot of very-very old people using and explaining XW-series . Because of what ? This is the sound of 

the seventies (Schulze, Vangelis,Schoener, Tangerine Dream , aso) eighties and late nineties (raver) . But the XW-series are positioned for the youth . And the PX for the old piano players !

 

So they seems to be concepted as 3 stand-alone machines instead of fully interchangeability ? A heavy mistake !

 

For 999,- USD ? - i buy three PX immediately . And order 5-6 Behringer BCR2000 for an VERY-VERY BIG

"analog"-synth . THIS is what i want .