Master Compressor Setup

[HectorSpace]

Hi,
Over the years I've come to realise just how important compression is for the stage pianist. The better digital pianos have become, the more important compression has become. Although I can remember have just the same problem with my Fender Rhodes Stage 73 back in 1977! The basic problem is that the dynamic range of a piano is massive in comparison the typical gig environment and pa capability. Unless there is an agreement in the audience to be quiet the, quietest notes will have to be amplified to a level where the loudest notes will be beyond the pa's reproduction capability. This situation gets dramatically worse when performing with a typical band. Once you add drums the actual dynamic range is seriously squashed.

Simply turning up the piano's volume isn't a solution. All the will happen is distortion, simply because the difference between quiet notes and loud ones is too great for the pa or your backline to handle.

The solution is compression. That's why serious stage pianos have master compressors. I've been using the master compressor on my Roland RD700SX for many years. It enables me to convey something of both quiet and loud parts even in a loud environment. It works very well. Can't say the same for the Nord Stage 2's master compressor.. It's a blunt thing that shouts 'I've been compressed' Not what you want if all you are trying to do is let the audience hear the piano 'naturally'.

The PX5s has a master compressor, and I've spent some time with it, trying to understand exactly what the parameters are actually doing. It isn't as straight forward as you might think. Page E-23 of main PX5s Tutorial gives an outline of the controls available but there isn't enough info to understand what constitutes typical settings.

For example: Threshold, does as it says, do more than simply adjust the threshold at which compression starts, but it isn't clear exactly what the relationship is between numbers 0 and 127 and Compression threshold / Limiter. This is true for Ratio too.  In fact it isn't obviously clear what setting these two should have to defeat the compressor so that it does not affect the signal!!

Maybe we could have these properly defined? A diagram with numbers would be brilliant! What would also be very useful is some setup guides (templates) for typical applications, just like I've defined above. E.g.. dynamic range reduced so as to work with a typical five piece band, but not sound like a sledgehammer; or settings to suit piano backing for a singer/soloist; or piano for worship etc.. Typical working musician stuff…..

Thanks

[Brad Saucier]

Hi.  I have only 2 tips.   

 

Ratio set at 0 defeats the compressor. 

 

Threshold works best in the lowest numbers.  Around 1 thru 7.   Beyond those lower numbers it really doesn't do too much.  

[Display Name]

Hi Hector. I understand what you are getting out, but the scenarios you mention (five piece band, singer/solost, worship) could all be completely different..

5 pc  band? What five pieces and in what venue? Horns? Are they miced or not? Jazz guitar or rock?

Singer  / solosist? Is the singer a "belter" or a "crooner"..

Worship? That could be anything from a DP and a guitar in a rented storefront to a 10,000 seat mega-church with a full choir and full band.

Adjusting the touch and velocity settings to better tame the dynamics is probably a better way to go then compression. Obviously having a sound guy in the house to adjust on the fly is even better. 

The best advice I can give is: fiddle and experiment and see how it sounds. You won't break anything!   

 

[Brad Saucier]

Excellent point Scott.  The AMP velocity sense is the best way to tame dynamic range. 

[HectorSpace]

Perhaps I haven't made myself clear.

1. I was not suggesting one setting for all scenarios: It is utterly clear that would be nonsense! I was actually requesting a set of typical generic templates for a range of applications.

2. My experience has been that adjusting the touch response and or velocity settings of the PX does not provide a satisfactory solution. Basically because there aren't enough variations between Heavy and Light. You loose the ability to access the more subtle tones in the lower velocity ranges once you select Light, because the conversion from key touch to velocity becomes too compressed to play effectively. Besides the compressor solution has always worked fine for me on the Roland.

3. We would all like to have a FoH engineer with the ability and equipment to properly manage a full on piano.. But typically that isn't the case! Most working musicians play gigs where the economics of having extra sound crew don't add up Besides the general requirement for dynamic range compression is pretty standard once you have a Drummer, Bass player and Guitarist on stage with you. To cope with the ambiant noise here, I'd suggest you need to squeeze the dynamic range down to around 20db from may be 50db?

4. Alternatives do not excuse the lack of information regarding the configuration of the compressor.

Thanks

[HectorSpace]

In addition to BradMZ's input, It seems that you also have to set the Ratio to zero in order to defeat the Compressor completely.

 

So that’s  Threshold = 0 + Ratio = 0 for Compressor off.

 

I’d also agree with BradMZ that a figure of between 7 and 10 is about right for the Threshold. I think this is because it allows the quieter notes to get through un-compressed. So the exact ‘knee’ point of the Threshold will depend on your playing style and the music programme.

 

As far as Ratio is concerned I think figures of around 80 to 100 seem to work quite well without sounding too squashed. But exactly what this means in db I don’t know.

 

As far as Level is concerned I’m guessing this actually defines the target signal level ceiling? I’ve got mine set to 67

 

Attack for piano is always going to be sharp so Zero

 

Release I think, should also be short, I’ve got mine set at 27.

 

Position, I’ve got mine set to PreEQ… Not sure which is better?

[Brad Saucier]

In addition to BradMZ's input, It seems that you also have to set the Ratio to zero in order to defeat the Compressor completely.

 

Yes. Exactly what I said....        Well.. to clarify further.  Threshold can be set to anything.  As long as Ratio is set to 0 the compressor is defeated. 

 

Level = The dsp effect's final output signal level

Position = Depends on if you want the sound compressed before master eq or compressed after.  Post EQ = If low frequencies are boosted in master eq, then the compressor will kick in based on low frequencies.  Same for high and mid frequencies if they are boosted.  Pre EQ = Low Mid or High frequencies can be emphasized without it affecting compression.  

Ratio = Can also be called depth (the level at which the compressor effects the sound)  

 

Also, Edit>Tone>Amp>velocity sense goes a very long way for reducing dynamic range of the piano.   I would use this in combination with some light compression to achieve the final sound.  

[HectorSpace]

Oops.. missed that one, sorry Brad. Mind you there is nothing like a Defeat menu option.. and that's nothing like it!! In fact burying the defeat in amongst the control parameters is not intuitive and just leads to confusion.. as above... Lol  

 

Transpose button anyone!!!

[Brad Saucier]

Transpose =  System setting>enter.    Use the yes no buttons to adjust. 

[HectorSpace]

Isn't it under the Midi Menu in System Settings?

[Brad Saucier]

Yes.  Transpose is.... Press the system setting button > then enter button.  You're there.  Use the yes no buttons to adjust.  

[Ebonivor]

Every PX-5S should come complete with an iPad and MIDI Designer! :-)

I have a layout with Master EQ, Master Compressor, DSP, MIDI Transpose and lots more...in fact, it grows more and more nearly every day! The great thing about it is that I can store presets of the parameters for one-touch access...and buttons for bypass and reset to defaults etc. I'm planning to upload some variations to the MIDI Designer site soon, but I wasn't planning on including the Master and System control pages, but maybe I should put them up separately...they can work well as an add-on to Mike Martin's original MD layout.

[HectorSpace]

Lol, so putting global transpose under a second level menu titled Midi, is logical and intuitive.... I don't think so.

Just like putting master compressor defeat as a value of Ratio.. With this there is an implicit expectation that Px 5s users will all know what Ratio does and that the parameter numbers in some way equate to compression ratio. With zero being zero compression. Casio's system designers don't seem to have engaged with typical musicians.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Px 5s is a great keyboard.. It's a little quirky but hey that's ok.. You just need to be honest about it.

[grandpohbah]

On 7/5/2014 at 2:36 AM, HectorSpace said:

Perhaps I haven't made myself clear.

1. I was not suggesting one setting for all scenarios: It is utterly clear that would be nonsense! I was actually requesting a set of typical generic templates for a range of applications.

2. My experience has been that adjusting the touch response and or velocity settings of the PX does not provide a satisfactory solution. Basically because there aren't enough variations between Heavy and Light. You loose the ability to access the more subtle tones in the lower velocity ranges once you select Light, because the conversion from key touch to velocity becomes too compressed to play effectively. Besides the compressor solution has always worked fine for me on the Roland.

3. We would all like to have a FoH engineer with the ability and equipment to properly manage a full on piano.. But typically that isn't the case! Most working musicians play gigs where the economics of having extra sound crew don't add up Besides the general requirement for dynamic range compression is pretty standard once you have a Drummer, Bass player and Guitarist on stage with you. To cope with the ambiant noise here, I'd suggest you need to squeeze the dynamic range down to around 20db from may be 50db?

4. Alternatives do not excuse the lack of information regarding the configuration of the compressor.

Thanks

I sm in agreement nothing worked,nothing  at all was effective till I adjusted the compressor setting why is there mo one with the knowledge to back this fact up,also agree I wish there was a chart for these settings as well  as slider number diagram why oh why would that ever be missing..