Keyboard construction-parts

[Jokeyman123]

Surprise-surprise as Gomer Pyle used to say....

 

While researching replacement keys for various keyboards across brands (I own a few and regularly repair my own if needed) I came across a surprise. Key construction for even the more costly Tyros and newer PSRs-the big ticket ones like the s770 , s970 etc. have pretty much the same key design regarding the way these are connected to the frames and how the action is created-pretty much rely on the back part of the key being the flexible part responsible for the key "feel" and throw. Same as my XW and as far as I know, the WK and CTK series and probably the newest MZ-X, not the piano actions which are an entirely different construction. Anyone concerned with how well the Casios will hold up over time, I guess the Tyros and new PSRs (for quite a bit more money) will not do much better.  I did not check other arrangers' key parts, but I know the older Roland G series used individual springs, as do some of the other non piano action keyboards such as the Motifs, Korg Tritons etc. I a little sturdier perhaps, but the feel not necessarily better with a spring, depends on the manufacturer's design and varies, usually not by much. Just passing it on. 

[pianokeyjoe]

I am a lover of pianokey, hence my user name! Indeed I have noticed this since my first keyboard(Casio PT1)and second borrowed Casio(MT11), and the difference in construction of both units. I like the individual keys of the CZ101/MT11 and CZ1000/CZ1,etc. For Yamaha, and other brands, same applies, I love the individual keys better. Now as for keybed frames, I always liked the metal beds. It is only later that I have really liked WOOD keyboards and keys more than plastic and metal construction, with wood keys on metal keybeds being my favorite(Kawai MP9500). My latest trend is to replace all plastic and plastic keys/metal frame actions with WOOD key actions from expensive pianos and pipe organs. I have alot of Casio and other brand keyboards slated for such a change.. if God allows.

[pianokeyjoe]

Now, as for the old versus new style strip keys, For Casio, I like the CTK1000/CT700 keys the best for the home keyboard as that one uses metal frame but with thicker strip keys that look like the newer piano front keys of the CTS keyboards of now but with synth fronts. I like the newest piano front keys obviously. The older CTK keys like on the CTK519 are ok but they tend to break easier over time than the piano front type. Now the only keys from Casio I DO NOT LIKE at ALL, are the old MT/SA and SK1 keys!! Wow those suck!! The black keys are the most flimsy even on the metal frames. The SK1 keys however are the worst of the lot. If I am to compare the other major home keyboard brand Yamaha, the 1987-1999 Full sized home keyboard keys from PSR6 and say CS1x are horrible! They break and stick easy and they use the rubber contact strips as the holder of the keyhooks which is asinine. My poor PSR300 does not play right due to those crappy keys. The newer Yamahas released NOW, are great strip keys, like the Casios of now. Oh man I can go on and on. I collect keybeds and keys so there ya go lol! As for mini Yamahas versus Casio, I do have to say the OLD 1980s mini Yamaha keyboards keys like on the DX100 are much better than the CZ101 keys of that same era. The feel of metal tabs pushing up those small keys versus the rubber domes of the CZ101 pushing up those keys, is a feel of night and day, with the Casio keys feeling too loose and clumsy(not flimsy though). The later Yamaha strip mini keys were better than Casio MT205 style mini strip keys and still are so much so that KORG and AKAI and other brands making mini keyboards are using a similar PSS480/PSS680 keys design, ie, Korg microkorg. Sadly, Casio failed horribly on the mini strip keys designs. Yamaha won out on that(mini keys). Now Casio DID have a very narrow window of release time of keyboards with superior mini keys keybeds that were metal frame based(M10,MT30,MT31)that were as good as those of Yamaha mini keyboards of THAT same time frame(PS1,PS2,PS3). Casio FULL SIZED keys of the 80s(Casiotone 405, Casiotone 201, CT6500,CPS201,CPS80,CPS2000,CZ1,FZ/VZ1,and CPS700) were all good with metal key frame and indeed some had weights in them..  These example models also covered the early 80s Celvanio series from BEFORE the hammer actions flood of the 90s came in. Yamaha had the (DX7,DX11,DX21,KX5,KX88)full sized keys that covered alot of their 80s keyboards but had a significantly smaller design range of keys! Casio really had more choice! LOL! Casio=9 key types, Yamaha=5 key types.

[IanB]

My Roland PC180A MIDI controller (bought sheesh about 20 years ago, early 2000s!) has springs (at the rear of the key).

[pianokeyjoe]

12 hours ago, IanB said:

My Roland PC180A MIDI controller (bought sheesh about 20 years ago, early 2000s!) has springs (at the rear of the key).

yep! those are FATAR keys made in Italy! Most keyboards that are NOT Casio/Yamaha use Fatar keys in one form or another or are made in CHINA and use Chinese replicas of Fatar keys... I like how CASIO never sold out nor did Yamaha for that matter!! Lol! Interesting how we can learn about companies, economy and so on, from keyboards and their key designs lol, something else!

[mike71]

Roland used Fatar keyboards because they made production in Italy. https://goo.gl/maps/iYSxezY219yiWEpH7

Now it's Proel and Dexibell, but if you go back in street view history you find that was indeed Roland. Nearby there's still the Roland plotter factory. https://goo.gl/maps/bzHFZPTxhmbK6dK38

Fatar facory is 70 km north, so makes sense that Roland used Fatar keybeds, as Dexibell does now.

Viscount uses Fatar keybeds for hammer action keyboard, but designs it own for organs, both digital and pipe organs.

 

[pianokeyjoe]

Oooh! @mike71! You sir are a gentleman and a scholar! Wow lol! Thankyou on behalf of all of us interested! Yes, I knew about Roland and actually even Korg, and others that use the Fatar beds, but I did not know Roland was IN Italy at the time. Now as to Proel and Dexibell? You have sparked my interest! What Keyboards are those? Viscount actually used and uses still most of Fatar beds, not just the hammer beds. I know really well about their beautiful wooden pipe organ beds. I bought some as well as the Fatar/Rodgers pipe organ wood/metal beds of which one is due to arrive today at my home!

[mike71]

35 minutes ago, pianokeyjoe said:

Oooh! @mike71! You sir are a gentleman and a scholar! Wow lol! Thankyou on behalf of all of us interested! Yes, I knew about Roland and actually even Korg, and others that use the Fatar beds, but I did not know Roland was IN Italy at the time. Now as to Proel and Dexibell? You have sparked my interest! What Keyboards are those? Viscount actually used and uses still most of Fatar beds, not just the hammer beds. I know really well about their beautiful wooden pipe organ beds. I bought some as well as the Fatar/Rodgers pipe organ wood/metal beds of which one is due to arrive today at my home!

Proel makes PA system and loudspeaker, solid state amplifiers, microphones for stage. Dexibell it's the keyboard brand, and they make some stage piano and clonewheels in the price range of Clavia Nord products.

Ad a music group they have also a guitar brand and a drum brand.

Roland was in Italy because in the 80s bought the SIEL factory and their IP and patents.

[CYBERYOGI =CO=Windler]

AFAIK the first Yamaha PortaSound keyboards used foil contacts (much like in nowadays cheap PC keyboards) instead of conductive rubber, which may have been considered too unreliable at that time.

 

How long rubber key contacts last depends not only on the material (quality silicone vs. butadien rubber or shortlived plasticized PVC trash) but on how the key mechanism acts on the end of key travel to prevent crushing the contact (or punching a hole through) when repeatedly pushing keys too hard. I.e. the key end has to knock on a hard surface (hopfully buffered by felt to muffle the knock) before the rubber dome gets completely crushed.

 

That's likely why good aftertouch keyboards are more expensive than only velocity sensitive ones. While velocity only measures the timing between pressing 2 such contacts under each key, aftertouch (at least polyphonic) needs to sense the actual pressure (i.a. electrical resistance) on each contact, which makes them more vulnerable to chemical decomposition or mechanical variation and wear of each key. (Hence e.g. the monophonic aftertouch in Casio CT-6000 simply senses rotation of the entire key mech metal frame by a potentiometer to avoid this.)

Edited January 28, 2022 by CYBERYOGI =CO=Windler

[pianokeyjoe]

@CYBERYOGI =CO=Windler The earliest Yamaha Portasaound I have in a molded matching case is my PS1 which is 32 keys(individual plastic keys similar to MT11 keys), and 4 beats. No chord accomp. My specimen had a bad speaker, which I replaced but not before I accidentally broke the main board clean in half when opening the case! I had to rewire jumpers from every broken circuit on both sides of the mainboard but luckly was very easy to fix! The keyboard uses a long white silicone rubber contact strip, the same of which Yamaha has used in many of their PSS models afterwards and even on their full sized PSR counterparts and some DX and other pro level keyboards and digital pianos to this day. I do know Yamaha made the older ORGANS, and some synthesizers in the 60s and 70s that used metal leaf switches, metal wire switches, individual round rubber dome switches and then the trend of metal leaf switches returned in the 80s and into the 90s with the synths and pro level keyboards those of which use the DX7 and DX5 keybeds, as well as digital pianos(PF10,15,70,80,YP40,CVP5)which all used those same leaf switches. In both Casio and Yamaha, I have never seen metal foil switches, unless the term you are using is just different to mean the metal leaf switches of the DX7/KX88 keyboards? Then no, the PS1,PS2.PS3 and even the fullsized PS models, did not use metal switches at all, but used the long white rubber contact strip made of silicone.