XW-G1 a good sampler choice?

[mike71]

As you know I own a PX-5S, ad after more than a year I find it has some plus and some minus.

The minus are the lack of a sampling option and the fact that the phrase and song sequencinng are a bit difficult and conterintuitive. I need a more drum-machine approach.

I was looking at some classified for an FZ-1 for that '80s sound, but all I have found were either sold at not working with missink keys or were over 400 € in price.

Then I found a shop selling one XW-G1 that was on exposition with still the 2 year Casio Italy warranty. at 350 € with postage price included.

I suppose that tones and phrases can't be exchanged between px-5S and XW-G1.

Or I could simply take a Volca sample that is smaller and costs less...

 

[Brad Saucier]

Correct. The XW-G1 and PX-5S cannot swap tones and phrases.  However, keep in mind the PX-5S data editor can convert standard midi files to phrases.  That opens up any number of possibilities to sequencing phrases.  As far as a sampler and song sequencing, I think the best option is one of Casio's MZ-X models.  XW-G1 is more limited than MZ-X models when it comes to sampling, unless you like live sample loop recording, which the MZ-X models can't do.  XW's also do not have a traditional linear song sequencer and their phrase sequencers are about the same type of interface as the PX-5S.   But, of course it all comes down to what you can find and what's available to you.  XW-G1 is in a shop near you, so that's an immediate advantage.  

[Chas]

Brad sums it up well. I would add a few extra points.

 

If your primary need is just for sampling, then the MZ-X may be overkill. It's also the most expensive out of the XW, FZ and MZ-X contenders.

 

The FZ is a sampler only with limited additive synthesis feature. It can do all sorts of weird and wonderful tricks to the samples using waveform drawing and 8 stage envelopes (similar to the CZ Phase Distortion envelopes), as well as sample processing, but it has zero arranging/ sequencing/ phrasing built in. They are also old and have known issues with the hard to find replacements floppy drive failing. It uses a lesser known Shugart Buss system, meaning that the common PC standard floppy drives won't work without some modifications. USB floppy emulators can be fitted but these are still slow to transfer data as they are restricted by the floppy interface itself. If you are lucky enough to find the FZ-20M rack version, you can use a SCSI2SD emulator that utilities the FZ-20M only SCSI interface. Then you will have lightning fast data transfer speeds.

 

The other issue as you've found with the FZ is that prices bottomed out a few years back and are well on the rise now. Reason for this is the legendary FZ resonant filter, which is actually analogue (under digital control) and has a very unique tonal quality. It's suspected that the amp stage is also analogue. Drive the amp and filter hard, and they saturate and distort in the way only an analogue filter can. The FZ was used extensively by Aphex Twin, which is another reason they are now sought after.

 

The XW-G1 has pretty good sampler features, though initially I didn't find it that intuitive to use. Perserverance pays off, and especially if you use the computer Data Editor it starts to be more logical to use. You can also map multiple samples across the keyboard, mix with PCM/ Solo synth waves and also route the audio through the Solo Synth resonant filter. You can use the G1 as a basic sampler, or you can mix and match samples with other available features. Of course you also get the step sequencer and phrase sequencer thrown in to boot.

 

The MZ-X is the most fully featured, but also the most expensive. It's also more of an an arranger keyboard, whereas the XW is more synth/ sampler based (with bonus step and phrase sequencer) while the FZ is pure sampler with some additive synthesis thrown in. I am not as clued up on the MZ's sampler features, but I think I am right that it lacks some of the sampling features/ tools that the XW has (Brad will confirm)?

 

From the above, I think we can rule out the FZ. They are now "vintage", meaning many will need work unless you are very lucky to find one in good working condition, plus the prices are rising because of collectable status. However, if you want that unique "Squonky" 80's FZ resonant analogue filter sound, only the FZ will give you that. The XW is the best value in terms of it's features. You get full sampling and phrase sequencer capabilities, but somewhat limited onboard sequencing. The MZ-X will give you much more in terms of sequencing, along with a similar sampling engine to the XW. If you MUST have good onboard sequencing capabilities, the MZ is the best option.

 

To conclude: if you are willing to pay a higher price for sequencing abilities, get the MZ. If sampling is the most important and you can manage without a comprehensive sequencer, then the XW offers the best value. If you must have vintage sampler sounds at the expense of everything else, get the FZ.

 

Oh, and if money is no object, get all three!

[Chandler Holloway]

Worth noting that the XW-G1 can play SMF files from SD card even if it doesn’t have a traditional linear MIDI sequencer on board. You can also convert a chain of step sequences into one MIDI file that you can then use to circumvent the lack of a “song mode”, even if it isn’t he most elegant workaround all things considered. Half the fun of the XWs is the step sequencer and all of its potential for live performance variation, though, so I wouldn’t recommend getting one if you don’t plan on utilizing those functions often.

 

MZ-X would be a good option if you can find one for a reasonable price. The velocity sensitive pad grid on the MZ-X500 will be very useful to you if you’re looking for more of a drum machine feel, plus the touch screen interface will probably make it much easier for you to use the sequencing features for longer compositions.

[mike71]

About MZ-X 500 it could be a good option but one hast o wait to find an used one at a reasonable price, and from what I see there aren't many used, maybe because who owns one is satisfied with it 😉  There are some shops that are selling it new but the price is the same as the PX-560 -- 

The problem with vintage synths is that they are old electronic systems not meant to be used after 30 years or so and in some case you'll find some nasty surprise, like leaking batteries or broken connectors. I have actually a vintage synthesizer that I got not working and for a barter, and was a pain to clean the keyboard, restore the factory settings, and to do this I had to find a floppy disk and an USB floppy disk driver (in the attached photo you can see the USB floppy driver and a glimpse of the old Synt. Yes keys are yellow, and yes if you really want a painful experience you can use a floppy disk with the PX-5S.

 

 

 

[mike71]

Just to make me more uncertain I found that in a shop they are selling an used MZ-X 500 for almost the price of the Demo XW-G1.

So apart the obvious fact that one has official Casio 2-year warranty and the other has a 3 month only shop warranty and it's used.that is an important thing to consider. all boils down if I nedd more having a full-fledged sequencer and a more arranger workstation set-up or more a synth sampler system an drum machine, and the fact one has speakers ant he other could be run on batteries.

 

 

 

 

[Chas]

On 3/5/2019 at 9:56 AM, mike71 said:

 

The minus are the lack of a sampling option and the fact that the phrase and song sequencinng are a bit difficult and conterintuitive. I need a more drum-machine approach.

 

Going by your original post, and with the used MZ-X turning up in your local store for a similar price to a G1, it seems that the MZ-X is the one to go for. Especially as it has a more powerful sequencer/ arranger. As Brad says, the G1's Phrase and Step Sequencer are similar to the PX's, and you said you need a more drum machine approach to sequencing.

 

Unless of course you really must have battery power as an option, and you really don't want speakers. Decision time!

[mike71]

Just found tht the MZ-X 500 was sold Saturday ... bummer. They were quick to resell it.

 

I don't hold my breath for it, I'll wit when another one will pop up.

[XW-Addict]

On 3/5/2019 at 3:56 PM, mike71 said:

As you know I own a PX-5S, ad after more than a year I find it has some plus and some minus.

The minus are the lack of a sampling option and the fact that the phrase and song sequencinng are a bit difficult and conterintuitive. I need a more drum-machine approach.

I was looking at some classified for an FZ-1 for that '80s sound, but all I have found were either sold at not working with missink keys or were over 400 € in price.

Then I found a shop selling one XW-G1 that was on exposition with still the 2 year Casio Italy warranty. at 350 € with postage price included.

I suppose that tones and phrases can't be exchanged between px-5S and XW-G1.

Or I could simply take a Volca sample that is smaller and costs less...

 

Hold on, have you tried emulating drums in hexlayers. You would be surprised if you've haven't. I'll bet with a bit of tweaks an eighties kind of linn drum is possible.

 

I've constructed an analog drumkit in hexlayers , two layers for snare a layered BD,single layer HH. 

[mike71]

Finally bought the XW-G1, that was on exposition. Unfortunately they lost the original box. Tried to get a free bag, but didn't work.

Now I have to try to use id and have found.

First thing I discovered a mic with trs balanced jack doesn't work. Had to add a jumper wire in the jack between ring and sleeve to get a successful sample.

Need also to buy a y cable to route the audio between PX-5S and XW-G1.

 

First impression is that both are pretty orthogonal as capabilities.

@XW-Addict yes, I've tried it the fact is that the PX-5S is a three headed beast, a digital stage piano, a synthesizer and a master keyboard. The tiny display makes a bit difficult to tweak the sounds, I have trien do make som electro like drums sound but it was a bit time consuming.

 

Display of the xw-1g it's a bit bigger.

By the way I hope that the power connector are different between the two keyboards, because the supplu voltage it's different.

 

 

[XW-Addict]

On 3/30/2019 at 3:51 PM, mike71 said:

Finally bought the XW-G1, that was on exposition. Unfortunately they lost the original box. Tried to get a free bag, but didn't work.

Now I have to try to use id and have found.

First thing I discovered a mic with trs balanced jack doesn't work. Had to add a jumper wire in the jack between ring and sleeve to get a successful sample.

Need also to buy a y cable to route the audio between PX-5S and XW-G1.

 

First impression is that both are pretty orthogonal as capabilities.

@XW-Addict yes, I've tried it the fact is that the PX-5S is a three headed beast, a digital stage piano, a synthesizer and a master keyboard. The tiny display makes a bit difficult to tweak the sounds, I have trien do make som electro like drums sound but it was a bit time consuming.

 

Display of the xw-1g it's a bit bigger.

By the way I hope that the power connector are different between the two keyboards, because the supplu voltage it's different.

 

 

Actually its quiet easy if you approach it Amp first then Filter then Pitch and last effects. 

Using the zone key's to scroll through each hex layer , layer. Or try Synth Performance Zal file 

I've uploaded its still a work in progress on some stages but I've done a Analog drum kit on some stages. 

[Sol]

How to place the recorded external samples from the microphone input to use along the Keyboard?

 

On 3/5/2019 at 3:35 PM, Chas said:

Brad sums it up well. I would add a few extra points.

 

If your primary need is just for sampling, then the MZ-X may be overkill. It's also the most expensive out of the XW, FZ and MZ-X contenders.

 

The FZ is a sampler only with limited additive synthesis feature. It can do all sorts of weird and wonderful tricks to the samples using waveform drawing and 8 stage envelopes (similar to the CZ Phase Distortion envelopes), as well as sample processing, but it has zero arranging/ sequencing/ phrasing built in. They are also old and have known issues with the hard to find replacements floppy drive failing. It uses a lesser known Shugart Buss system, meaning that the common PC standard floppy drives won't work without some modifications. USB floppy emulators can be fitted but these are still slow to transfer data as they are restricted by the floppy interface itself. If you are lucky enough to find the FZ-20M rack version, you can use a SCSI2SD emulator that utilities the FZ-20M only SCSI interface. Then you will have lightning fast data transfer speeds.

 

The other issue as you've found with the FZ is that prices bottomed out a few years back and are well on the rise now. Reason for this is the legendary FZ resonant filter, which is actually analogue (under digital control) and has a very unique tonal quality. It's suspected that the amp stage is also analogue. Drive the amp and filter hard, and they saturate and distort in the way only an analogue filter can. The FZ was used extensively by Aphex Twin, which is another reason they are now sought after.

 

The XW-G1 has pretty good sampler features, though initially I didn't find it that intuitive to use. Perserverance pays off, and especially if you use the computer Data Editor it starts to be more logical to use. You can also map multiple samples across the keyboard, mix with PCM/ Solo synth waves and also route the audio through the Solo Synth resonant filter. You can use the G1 as a basic sampler, or you can mix and match samples with other available features. Of course you also get the step sequencer and phrase sequencer thrown in to boot.

 

The MZ-X is the most fully featured, but also the most expensive. It's also more of an an arranger keyboard, whereas the XW is more synth/ sampler based (with bonus step and phrase sequencer) while the FZ is pure sampler with some additive synthesis thrown in. I am not as clued up on the MZ's sampler features, but I think I am right that it lacks some of the sampling features/ tools that the XW has (Brad will confirm)?

 

From the above, I think we can rule out the FZ. They are now "vintage", meaning many will need work unless you are very lucky to find one in good working condition, plus the prices are rising because of collectable status. However, if you want that unique "Squonky" 80's FZ resonant analogue filter sound, only the FZ will give you that. The XW is the best value in terms of it's features. You get full sampling and phrase sequencer capabilities, but somewhat limited onboard sequencing. The MZ-X will give you much more in terms of sequencing, along with a similar sampling engine to the XW. If you MUST have good onboard sequencing capabilities, the MZ is the best option.

 

To conclude: if you are willing to pay a higher price for sequencing abilities, get the MZ. If sampling is the most important and you can manage without a comprehensive sequencer, then the XW offers the best value. If you must have vintage sampler sounds at the expense of everything else, get the FZ.

 

Oh, and if money is no object, get all three!

 

[Brad Saucier]

33 minutes ago, Sol said:

How to place the recorded external samples from the microphone input to use along the Keyboard?

 

 

 

Basically, edit a user wave tone and select your samples as splits.  Up to 5 splits per tone is possible.  

[Sol]

On 1/14/2021 at 4:29 PM, Brad Saucier said:

 

Basically, edit a user wave tone and select your samples as splits.  Up to 5 splits per tone is possible.  

I don't see where I can find in the edition, "samples as split"

[Brad Saucier]

Once you record a sample from the mic input, press write and save it like you would when editing a tone.  You'll find the samples as user wave tones in the user tones.  You can press edit on the tone and select split edit to edit the samples.