CZ-1 vs CZ101

[Chas]

It's a little quiet here in the CZ sub forum, though hopefully I will be generating a topic of discussion very shortly. 

 

Over the years I've read online in many discussions that the CZ-1 & the CZ101 sound different, despite using the same Phase Distortion synthesis. As I own both a CZ-1 and a CZ101, I decided to put them back to back to see if this really is the case.

 

I'm currently putting the video together, and it will contain many audio and visual demonstrations that will hopefully decide this debate for once and for all. I still have some work to do, though with a bit of luck it should be in the can within the next two weeks.

 

As I needed a variety of patches for the comparisons, I've been going through my patch collections to select some for the test. And I have to say, damn, the CZs can sound amazing and powerful!

 

Anyway, here's a sneak look at Big Daddy and Bionic Baby set up for testing. Of course, once the video is completed and uploaded to my channel, I'll notify this forum 👍

Edited November 15, 2021 by Chas

[Jokeyman123]

I owned both for a long time, I can't recall-only that the CZ-1 could have more sounds available in memory-I recall 32 in each bank, and the CZ-101 was 16? Were there a few additional waveforms in the CZ-1? I can't recall. I could transfer any CZ sound from one to the other no problem with the EZ-CZ cartridges, I don't recall any difference in the sound quality, but my memory may not be too good, it was awhile ago.

[IanB]

Looking forward to this! As observed by @Jokeyman123 perceived differences in patches may just be due to the extra oscillators available (two PD chips rather than one). I don't think any more waveforms were available in the CZ-1, and without distracting myself by poring over the schematics again (every time I do I get drawn down a rabbit hole!) the circuits are in terms of audio circuitry near identical; same DACs, same op-amps, same components, etc. So I'll be interested to hear this.

[giano]

nice idea! I am really curious about what you will find out! looking forward to your video 😀

 

[Chas]

Cheers guys!

Been backlogged this past week with other commitments, so unfortunately my video has had to take a back seat. However, all the crucial information, details, demonstration patches and video format has all been selected and completed, along with the structure of the episode. All (ALL?!!! 😆 )  I have left to do is to film and edit it, thought that's going to have to wait until next weekend as we're going away tomorrow for Thanksgiving and won't be back until next Friday night.

@Jokeyman123- The CZ-1 can store 64 user presets, double the amount that the 3000/ 5000 models could store (32), and four times the amount of patches that the 101/ 1000 models could store (16). There are no additional waveforms in the CZ-1 and it can use the exact same Phase Distortion patch data that all the other CZ models can use. As with the 3000/ 5000 models, it has a variable stereo chorus (the 101/ 1000 do not have chorus). Where the CZ-1 differs significantly from all other CZ's, is that it is the only CZ model with velocity and after touch ability. Not only that, but the envelopes can vary depending on velocity, making the CZ-1 able to vary a patch sound purely on velocity alone.  

@IanB- I've read some comments seemingly suggesting that the CZ-1 uses different DACs to the other CZs that may affect the sound, but as I'm not an electronics expert I am simply going to compare the 101 with the 1 by sound, and also by using oscilloscope and spectrum analyzer VSTs. A combination of audio and visual demonstrations should hopefully draw a logical conclusion. Oh yes, I've also seen other comments online, and one person was convinced that the 1000 model sounds fatter than the 101! It was these comments that sparked me into putting this comparison video together to see if there was any truth  in these claims, or if it's just many years of myths and misinformation floating about!

@giano- Thank you, and I hope you will find my video interesting. Having already gone through hundreds of CZ presets to find a selection to use, I can tell you that the CZs and Phase Distortion sound amazing, even all these years later 👍

Edited November 21, 2021 by Chas

[Jokeyman123]

Ah, 64 patches-why the EZ-CZ cartridges were so nice-could be used in any CZ-but could load all 4 banks (16 sounds each) into the CZ-1 at once or just 16 at a time in the 101 and 2 in the CZ-3000/5000.  I knew there was something the CZ-1 could do to make it more programmable-more complex sounds-the 8-stage envelopes still don't show up on many other programmable synths, including the newest Casio 560, not sure about the MZ-X. Velocity and aftertouch-for an instrument from back in the 80s, this was a definite plus. I recall there were 2 release envelopes, so the sound could change in a radical way on key release at 2 points in time. I'd have to study the programming guides again, can't remember.

[IanB]

@Chas I will be interested to know what results you get. Nyquist says that different DACs shouldn't make a difference to timbre, "the science" says the only difference might be noise levels if one DAC has poorer linearity than the other. But "the science" isn't always right in that there may be other factors! We have to remember also that the CZs use the "fake bits" system where they kinda-sorta extend the resolution of the DAC by scaling the DAC output as the amplitude goes up and down. That uses some really bog standard 4000 series parts as analogue switches, nothing fancy there. Casio were quite inventive with their circuits back then!

 

It interests me what people hear in vintage stuff, often attributing exaggerated claims about circuits which, when you look at the board, are made from common off the shelf components. This is notable in my opinion in the "mystique of Moog". Look on the schematics and it's dime-a-dozen transistors and op amps. One extreme example was that it got around that the capacitors in Fender Stratocaster tone controls were some kind of special sauce and they started selling for silly money; ordinary buy'em by the bucket-load ceramic capacitors!

 

Of course there may be other factors, such as board layout in the smaller CZ101 compared to the CZ1000, etc. Looking forward to your results.