Was there any "green button tone edit" Casio with the touch response?

[Szo]

In my childhood i've got the Casio CT 470, later i've got CT 670 and finally got an Casio CT-X1 which is really great, but still lacks touch response. I know that the buttons for tone editor wasn't always green - sometimes violet or black. But were there any Casio from this series (220 bank, tone edit) with touch reponse?

ps. Casio CT 700 and 770 and also CTK 1000 shares at least some of the patches from the series, some are slightly changed, but it's not the same.

[pianokeyjoe]

So far as I know that is sadly a no. Although I could be wrong as I do not know all the models released for markets outside the mainland USA, I only saw the CTK1000 as the only tone editable unit with touch response. Indeed I had never even heard of the CT-X1 until I read about it being referenced in this forum but outside that, no. The PMP series and the PRO series that is the same as the models you mentioned but all black and sold outside the USA, may have a rare model with the tone edit and touch response. I do not have ANY of the tone edit Casios in my vast collection either so I have no way to test via midi if the sound engine responds to velocity from touch responsive midi controllers either. Can some one verify??

[Szo]

I've checked and sadly no. Also through midi you can't get tone edit function. Only basic 220 sounds.

Sad, because some Yamahas (for example PSR 47) from the same period (early 1990s) with the original non sensitive keybed respond to velocity via midi without any problems or config, which makes them more usable.

 

Casio sounds from 220 tone bank with velocity and tone editor would be great. PMP / PRO series as far as i know only differ in design, but i'm not sure.

[pianokeyjoe]

4 hours ago, Szo said:

I've checked and sadly no. Also through midi you can't get tone edit function. Only basic 220 sounds.

Sad, because some Yamahas (for example PSR 47) from the same period (early 1990s) with the original non sensitive keybed respond to velocity via midi without any problems or config, which makes them more usable.

 

Casio sounds from 220 tone bank with velocity and tone editor would be great. PMP / PRO series as far as i know only differ in design, but i'm not sure.

Ok. Yes the Yamaha midi keyboards pretty much all responded to velocity since the early models including the PSR36! Now the Casio CZ responded to velocity but not the HT700/HZ600/HT3000.. Strange.. I mean whats it cost to allow midi reception of velocity for Pete's sake! lol! Cheap Yamahas did! Well I did see some other models with the editor on them but nothing like the CT670(lets use that model as the basis of our thread here since it was a uniquely promising model in its time),in terms of sound quality or even build! The CT670/CT680 I think were, the LAST Casio models to feature the OLD style full sized individual keys, that you could change each key that broke, individually, like on the CZ5000.. Only the CT670 had pure white keys instead of antique or pale white keys. After the CT670/680, all the new full sized keyboards de Casio had strip keys of one sort or the other. Cheaper build basically. Man on man.. no velocity midi reception, that is odd! I know for a fact it responds to 4 channel midi cause I used the CT670 of my sister's now exhusband, to be triggered by my Yamaha PSS480 5 track midi sequencer in which, I used CT670 Synth BASS, piano, some synth sound, strings, and drums as the added PCM sound source for some of my songs! But sadly neither keyboard was velocity sensitive so I had no way of knowing that limitation on the Casio. On the Yamaha it only responded to Velocity but only in a MIDI ONLY tone module mode that disables all the onboard rhythms and accompaniment features. My first ever touch response keyboard I could afford to buy was a Casio CTK50. I made my first ever pro multitrack songs with it and a external midi sequencer back in the late 90s. Your CTK1000 and other models you have will just have to do.

[Szo]

Quote

pretty much all responded to velocity since the early models including the PSR36!

sadly PSR 36 don't respond to velocity via midi, i've checked it now

[pianokeyjoe]

Ah! You have it!? Ok, well I may have the PSR36 confused with another similar version, the PSR41 maybe? I do have that one and a dead PSR70, but both are quite literally buried under a room full of keyboards.. I know alot of older midified Yamahas did respond to velocity but only via midi when the keyboard itself did not. Now mind you, some of them had to be set to a special module mode for that to happen.. like the PSS480/680/780

[CYBERYOGI =CO=Windler]

Casio models with and without velocity generally used different software and velocity needs more IC pins, hence velocity was not a simple feature (like a key matrix easteregg) to turn on in more expensive versions but a fundamental change in soft- and hardware architecture. Beside CTK-1000 (which shares at least *some* of the "PCM" sound) I am not aware of anything with classic PCM/CD sound set and velocity.

 

The only keyboard with velocity I am aware of having twins without is the much newer Yamaha PSS-A50 (awesome mini keyboard) with its simpler variants PSS-F30 and PSS-E30. But despite 99% identical hardware, also here the software strongly differs (completely changed user interface and count of preset sounds etc.) and only the A50 (with velocity) has the USB midi chip, thus swapping the rom (tiny serial flash thing that tends to die easily by power glitches) likely can not turn E30/F30 into A50. The F30 firmware may be identical with the fullsize F50 but has both stereo channels wired to a mono amp, i.e. possibly there is stereo sound also inside the A50, but I haven't investigated this.

 

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-pss-a50-look-inside/

 

I don't know if such things now also exist in very new Casios, but models until 1990th definitely had different soft- & hardware.

[Szo]

Quote

Beside CTK-1000 (which shares at least *some* of the "PCM" sound) I am not aware of anything with classic PCM/CD sound set and velocity.

Im wondering if the CTK 1000 was the first one with velocity keys and natural sounding presets? PCM/CD was great quality (especially great piano sound) and would work great with touch response.
 

Before Casio had CPS series (for example CPS 201) with touch response keys. I think it may me these classic pcm/cd sound?

 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Szo

[CYBERYOGI =CO=Windler]

Casio CPS-201 is AFAIK a castrated CT-6000, which uses a special variant of consonant-vowel (i.e. multiple stairwaves layered and routed through switchable fixed filters).

[Szo]

I think it's true if youre talking about casio CPS 2000
check out the video, acoustic piano sounds at 1:45 sounds way to natural to be consonant vowel.

[CYBERYOGI =CO=Windler]

I have here the service manual of Casio CPS-201 (APR. 1986, paper original).

 

CPU = "uPD7811G-226"
2x sound chip = "uPD932G"
percussion IC = "HD61701"
ROM = "uPD23C128EC-029"

 

Thus it is definitely a CT-6000 variant (consonant-vowel missing link). The service manual looks quite detailed with some logic tables about filter controls, DAC signals etc.

[Szo]

Did you watched the video? the sound of it it's for me sounds the same as samples as in CT 660 and rest of the series.

 

The Piano sound in CT 6000 sounds way different, not realistic like this one.

CASIO CPS 2000 is definitely consonant vowel, but CPS 201 had to be samples with that characteristic sound.

[pianokeyjoe]

I own 3 CPS201. It is all synthetic in nature. The CPS 201,CPS210(same as 201 but with MIDI), and CPS2000(76 note weighted keys)are synthetic. There are some others I can not remember from the CPS line and CELVIANO line that where also synthetic and what do ya know? Also the most interesting! They were sold Internationally and not all models were say in the USA mainland. Some were made for the Japanese or European or Asian markets only. The SAMPLED CPS line was not so feature rich sadly, as the MAIN FEATURE WAS the SAMPLED sounds lol! So you enter the 210 Tone bank era of Casio keyboards of which the CPS80/85/7/100/101/700/etc, were a part of. All featured touch response keys and midi and sampled sounds, albeit 8bit or compressed PCM. I used to have the CPS700.

[Szo]

So what you think about this one from video. Does it sound the same?

 

[pianokeyjoe]

47 minutes ago, Szo said:

So what you think about this one from video. Does it sound the same?

 

It sounds a little like the MT240 210 tone bank piano BUT, if you really listen well you can tell it is not. It is synthetic but remember, I own 3 of these same CPS201 and one CT60000 so I do know the sounds intimately. The hollow sounding Camera mic makes it sorta sound realistic but no it is not. The unique feature is the touch response which adds a sharp percussive attack to the piano sounds. A good example of synthetic piano sound but with really good attack to make it sound almost realistic is the ROLAND HP800 and Yamaha PF80. BOTH are synthetic but use smart envalopes on the piano sounds to make them sound almost real. The KAWAI MP120 is a wooden key digital piano that also sounded almost realistic due to the attack and decay stages of the piano sounds, but if you listen to all these keyboards in person or with headphones, it is more obvious. In a mix, these keyboards will sound like pianos as our ears have become used to hearing pianos everywhere. But no.. As I described above, the models I specify as the TONE BANK PCM models are the ones that sound realistic. Now, some of the OTHER presets DO sound realistic but then again.. creative envalope stages make them sound real too. Also, again, you must listen in person cause the camera mic is NOT a good sound input source by which to judge tone fidelity with.

[Szo]

unfortunately there are no good demos of CPS 201 with direct sound. There is a demo of CPS 2000

and it sound definitely synthetic. So, does the CPS 2000 and CPS 201 piano sound the same?

 

[pianokeyjoe]

@SzoNo. The CPS201 has a slightly stronger attack and fuller sound. The CPS2000's other sounds are the same as the CPS201. Basically, the CPS201 has filters applied in its piano sounds that the CPS2000 does not, and also it is like @Chascomparison of the Casiotone 201 versus the M10. Both use consonant vowel sound but are synthesized a little differently. The CT6000 which is a flagship of BOTH the CPS201 and CPS2000 sounds slightly different from both units and it too is consonant vowel synth source! They came from the same era and range. How I know? I have both the CT6000 and CPS201. The sounds and beats sound the same but.. not exactly the same. The CPS201 sounds LOUDER!!! And PunCHIER! The CPS2000 sounds.. meellooow, and swwweeeeter.. The CT6000 is the one stuck in the middle of the 2 clowns lol!  Now the CPS2000 does not have any accompaniment features and has instead, extra tones that are also found on the CT6000. Just listen. I tells ya though, there is a 76 note CT or CPS classic Casio of the same era that uses the same keys as the CPS201/CT6000 I saw in Argentina, that I do not know the model number that it too, sounds like these 3 keyboards.