Play/Stop Phrase over MIDI

[perldude]

Hello all,

It's been a very long time since I dug into the workings of my XW-P1.  Now I am investing a boat load of time to get it working with the rest of my rig.  I'm trying to kick off a phrase I recorded and saved, have it associated with a Performance that includes a tone for the phrase  to play.  I  have a FCB1010 (UnO2 firmware) that sets the program change for all my synths including the XW-P1.  The XW-P1 is the most quirky of them all.  But as a EE, I understand that anything with great capability requires necessary complexity. So, I have the FCB1010 send the following to the XW-p1: (I left out the other instrument commands)

   SendMidi XWP1  CtrlChange 123 0  //xw all notes off

   SendMidi XWP1  ProgChange $Wind_XW //this is the location of the user performance patch

   SendMidi XWP1 CtrlChange 0 113

   SendMidi XWP1_Note  NoteOn 83 127 //the XP1 primary channel  is  set to 3, but the tone is listening on 8 defined as XWP1_Note
   Wait 1  //that's 100ms wait time
   SendMidi XWP1_Note  NoteOn 83 127  //why do I send a note on twice, because I found that it doesn't take it the 1st time I hit the FCB  switch.  Perhaps someone can tell me why and how to do this right.

All that MIDI code works '//' are comments

 

Ok, I have the $Wind patch set for key play, but the note on is not starting the phrase.  So, I set the pedal to start the phrase and then tried to send MIDI to put the pedal into hold with:

SendMidi XWP1 CtrlChange 64 127 // as directed in the midi implementation guide.  But this didn't work, but the way the manual reads, perhaps the hold commands only works when it is a sustain/damper functions, not a phrase start/stop function.

So then I enabled NRPN command for Phrase Sequencer Start/Stop and sent the required NRPN commands as defined (converted to DEC):

   SendMidi XWP1 CtrlChange 98 1
   SendMidi XWP1 CtrlChange 99 38
   SendMidi XWP1 CtrlChange 6 126
   SendMidi XWP1 CtrlChange 38 00

This is not working either.

I have read all of the user manual and the MIDI implementation guide. There is SysEx stuff, but I shouldn't have to go there.

I have reached the end of what I can try. I hope I have just made a bone headed mistake.  what else should I try?

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

 

 

 

[perldude]

Just to add some supplemental data.  I did some research on examples of NRPN commands and found this  https://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/howToNRPN.html  and came to the realization that the XW-P1 midi implementation manual is wrong in how it lists the NRPN command order.  It is listing the commands in the wrong order.

 

7.39.8 Phrase Sequencer Start/Stop
the manual Message Format:

BnH 62H 01H  #This is the command LSB
BnH 63H 26H    #This is the command MSB
BnH 06H mmH  # this data MSB
BnH 26H llH  # this is the data LSB
n: MIDI Channel Number
mm: Value (Note1)
ll: (Send:00H、Receive:Ignored)
Send Sent when the Phrase Sequencer is started or stopped while Phrase NRPN is enabled by Instru-
ment settings.
Receive Receipt while Phrase NRPN is enabled by Instrument settings starts or stops the Phrase
Sequencer.
 

So I revered the 1st 2 lines and the LSB of the data command in not required for receive so I omitted it.

BnH 63H 26H

BnH 62H 01H

BnH 06H FFH  //anything over 40H or 64dec should be Play. 49H or lower should be Stop.

 

But none of what I have tried has worked.  And I ensured that Phrase NRPN has been enabled.

I am incredibly frustrated by this synth's MIDI implementation I am considering dumping it for another machine.

If anyone could point anything I could be missing it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[perldude]

Hello Casio XW-P1 in the blind.

I am continuing to enter my progress in getting my phrase to start remotely over MIDI. Hopefully, at some point someone will provide some direction.

It seemed to me that the manual had the NRPN commands 62, 63,06 LSB, MSB, MSB the 1st 2 backwards.  But by experiment I got a NRPN command for turning on DSP to work and that proved to me that the manual is correct (albeit counter intuitive).  It also confirmed off is <= 64 and on is >= 65 (to 127).  Then I went back to the XW manual and read the midi section carefully and saw the Sync Mode section.  So I enabled sync in slave mode. The realtime start/stop commands are only interpreted by the step sequencer (DAMN!).  My FCB1010 UnO2 can send realtime clock, start, stop and continue, and sure enough when I had it send the patch, the step sequencer started, but my phrase sequencer NRPN start command still doesn't work. So is there a way to convert a phrase sequence to a step sequence?  I guess its time to learn the step sequencer, but I would still like  to know if there is a way to remote the phrase seq start.

 

[perldude]

@Mike Martin  Hi, Are you still the Casio marketing manager for the XW product?  I'm hoping that my thread here can get some attention from Casio customer service.  I think I have been pretty diligent in solving this midi controlled phrase start/stop issue.  At this point it seems I have exhausted all options as documented in the XW-P1 manual and midi implementation manual.  Any help with corresponding with Casio technical support would be appreciated.  Thank you.

[Brad Saucier]

We have some very knowledgeable XW owners on the forums.  It just takes time for them to check in.  

 

13 hours ago, perldude said:

So is there a way to convert a phrase sequence to a step sequence?

 

No, but a track within a step sequence can trigger a phrase.  That's your bridge.  If you can trigger a start/stop a step sequence by MIDI, you can start a phrase by way of the step sequencer.  

 

By the way, perhaps it's better if you explain why you want to trigger phrases by MIDI.  Someone can offer alternative performance suggestions.

[perldude]

Thanks Brad for your reply and your suggestions. 

 

Better understanding the step sequencer is certainly a goal and implementing your suggestion of triggering the phrase is something I will do. Part of my stubborn need to get remote phrase start to work is because it is there and finding out why my implementation of the given (NRPN) commands don't work will also probably expose where the part/tone/zone/midi relationship limitations exist so I can better setup other configurations in the future. 

So that is part of my explanation as to why I want to do this. 

But the initial explanation as to why I want to midi this, is that in my keyboard rig I have a Moog Voyager XL, a Ferrofish B4000+ B3 emulator and the XW-P1. I have 2 Nektar midi keyboard controllers arrange mechanically like a Hammond B3 on the bottom level of my stand with the Moog on the top level.  I only want to play these 3 keyboards.  I typically map the B4000+ and/or the XW to these controllers in different combinations depending on the song.  I use the FCB1010 pedal to do the program changes for all the sound sources. Basically my hands are tied up playing 2 keyboards when I change the XW patch to the phrase I want while I am playing something else, so I can't then hit a key or play/stop to start the phrase.  The pedal is a last resort option, but even hitting the pedal after changing the rig's program with the FCB costs too much time.