Is there a 'Hamburg Grand', 'New York Grand' or a 'Vienna Grand' sampled on the Casio CT-X3000/5000?

[AlbertS]

Many users like me would certainly like to know which 'real' pianos the samples for the 'Stage Piano', and e.g. the 'Grand Piano' were taken from. Is there a 'Hamburg Grand', 'New York Grand', or a 'Vienna Grand' sampled on the Casio CT-X3000/5000? The 'Stage Piano' sounds very crisp and realistic, but while at first tending to hold it for a 'Hamburg Grand', I came to the conclusion that it sounds too bright for a Hamburg Steinway. I read that on the North keyboards 'Stage Piano' was the name for a 'Bösendorfer Imperial' sample. So what is it on the Casio CT-X5000? Can somebody please help?

Edited July 31, 2023 by AlbertS

[Mclandy]

While Casio doesn't reveal this (perhaps for intellectual property issues), I have read where their digital piano (AiR) products have multiple piano samples.  However, only one specifically, the Berlin Grand, was developed in collaboration with a piano maker, C. Bechstein.  So it might make sense that they would use this in the CT-X series, but that is only conjecture.

 

Regardless of what they use, you can always adjust the sound more to your liking.  Not that you can add especially complex, nuanced things like piano resonance, but you can certainly tweak the EQ to modify things like "brightness".

Edited July 21, 2023 by Mclandy

[AlbertS]

Thanks for your answer, Mclandy. I figured it (the 'Stage Piano') out to be one of the brighter pianos, like a Bösendorfer, or, even more likely, a C.Bechstein (So maybe you're right on that one). The 'Grand Piano' or the 'Grand Piano Wide' to me sound similar to either a 'Hamburg Grand' or a 'New York Grand'. While I appreciate qualified answers like yours very much, I still wait for such users to answer this question who have both the CASIO CT-X5000 and those expensive pianos at their fingertips, and can can make a direct comparison of all of those instruments (digital and analog.) That's why I hope for some more answers on this question.

(But still: We were not so far apart on guessing!) 

Edited July 25, 2023 by AlbertS

[Mike Martin]

The primary piano tone used in most Casio products is a "Hamburg Grand".   

[AlbertS]

Wow! It's Mike Martin in person! I watched your tone editing webinar the other day on Youtube about the CT-X3000/5000 series. We were all sorry to learn that the tones on the CT-X3000 were not edible, only editable! (I was impressed by the clarity of the language you used to explain all that technical stuff! Though being a foreigner, I understood every word! Congrats on that!)

 

Let's go back to the piano tones of the CT-X3000/5000.

I stumbled upon a video on Youtube that compares a 'Hamburg Steinway' to a 'Bösendorfer Imperial':

 

At the following video address https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2GYYV8JSqM you will find at 4:12 min the pianist playing very high tones of the upper register (an excerpt from Maurice Ravel - Gaspard de la Nuit). Now you should have turned on your CT-X3000/5000 and played those high tones simultaneously on your keyboard, just for comparison. To me, the tone of the 'Stage Piano' sounds very similar to the 'Bösendorfer' or even the same.

(One prerequisite, however, is that you have tuned your CT-X to the international 'concert pitch' frequency of 440 Hz. In German: 'der Kammerton a1')

 

At 3:05 min, you can hear the bass notes of the 'Bösendorfer' and again, when I tried to play these notes in parallel using the 'Stage Piano' on my CT-X5000, I found the sound to be very similar or identical.

 

Another Youtube video shows how the sparkling of a 'Hamburg Steinway' should sound like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LsrEH94ww0 shows a sparkling Steinway (Comparison - Steinway vs. Fazioli).

 

At 3:00 min you can hear the sparkling tones of the 'Hamburg Steinway' the way they should sound (It's a full-rounded sound). The 'Stage Piano' on the CASIO to me sounds a little brighter than this.

 

Now may everyone judge for themselves (I do not claim to know this with any certainty).

Edited July 26, 2023 by AlbertS

[Just Alex]

In my personal opinion, CT-X series have one of the worst piano sounds in casio history.

Plasticky and not natural at all. Yamaha E series have better piano sound.

However, MZ-X and privia do have very good piano sounds...

 

[AlbertS]

Hi, @Just Alex!

 

This is just a matter of taste! I think the rest of us bought the CT-X series for their excellent piano tones in the first place. There is a video on Youtube by Jeremy See, where he clearly gives the piano tones of the 'CASIO CT-X3000' the edge over the piano tones of the 'YAMAHA PSR E' series.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3gS5V7qG7c “Does Yamaha PSR-E463 Sound Better than Casio CT-X3000?”

 

(At 1:15 min he says that he finds the primary piano tone on the PSR not to be as detailed as on the CASIO.)

 

But I guess I know where your preference for the YAMAHA PSR E originates from: there is a massive bass on the YAMAHA keyboard, making all the rhythm patterns and piano tones sound much heavier than on the CASIO.

 

I am certain that when you hook up the CASIO to a PA system, you get a more realistic and brilliant sound. This is shown in Rich Formidoni’s advert video on the CT-X series, where the piano sound (obviously because of being hooked up to a PA system) is getting across much heavier. Listen to this video on headphones, and you will be impressed by the stereo sound.

 

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARp4eTG_WGU CASIO CT-X5000)

 

Another reason for the different tastes is obviously the circumstance that the piano tones of the CASIO and the YAMAHA were taken from different samples (‘YAMAHA Grand Pianos’ on the PSR series, and true ‘Steinway’ and ‘Vienna Imperial Grand’ samples on the CASIO). I, personally, prefer the Steinway and Bösendorfer samples. Whereas you, @Just Alex, prefer the Yamaha samples of grand pianos, that’s all.

 

A very good exemplification of the excellence of the CT-X’s tones’ quality is given in Fabio Augusto’s videos on Youtube: the search term “Fabio Augusto CT-X5000”.

 

For example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5UBySs0IWE (DANCE)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq77AgJI9ZQ (BLUES, piano!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV66Ho8FAWo (CLASSICAL)

 

There you will find (with good headphones on) that the sound – even from the built-in rhythms – does not sound like a keyboard, but rather like recordings made in a recording studio! This instrument sounds absolutely realistic across the board!

 

But I highly appreciate your opinion, @Just Alex. Fortunately, there are different tastes in the world, and none are better than the others.

 

Best wishes to you, and stay healthy!

Edited August 12, 2023 by AlbertS

[Just Alex]

Well, I had CT-X5000 for more than a year, so I know what I'm talking about.

It's 3-4-5th octave pianos are especially awful - no resolution, sound almost as square wave.

So I sold it and bought MZ-X500. At least, grand piano sound there is good.

But e-pianos are worse than on CT-X5000.

 

[AlbertS]

Hi @Just Alex, thanks for your post. And thanks a lot for your input - I highly appreciate it!

 

Is there anybody else who can contribute to this topic - the origin of the piano samples on the CASIO CT-X Series? (Please compare the sound of the pianos - from the real ones and the ones on the CT-X - in the video whose link I sent you in my third post:

 

 

I want this to be a fruitful discussion.

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by AlbertS