SonnyDaye Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 I'm sure it's probably a simple process, but I'm looking to download and install 2 simple basic drum patterns to my PX-5S. Just a simple "boom chick" fox trot, swing 4 bar pattern and also a simple basic Bossa Nova pattern. No fill-ins, just a simple, repeating pattern. I don't know how to create these or (preferably) where to find these and don't know how to load them permanently into the PX. Once this is done, I'm sure (hopefully) that I'll be able to figure out how to use these patterns and quickly choose a tempo in a live situation.Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamer Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Mike wrote that a future firmware update should give us the ability to extract parts of the rhythm tracks of a midifile and convert them into drum patterns. This is a feature already present in many arranger keyboards, like the Korg PAs, and shouldn't be too difficult to implement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyDaye Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 Thanks Dreamer!But, I'm sure there must be a fairly easy way to download some - wherever they are - and import them into the PX and trigger easily. First, have to find short, simple patterns somewhere. I have run into some that are too "busy" and complex (like the type of drummers that I would never hire. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamer Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 SonnyDaye, you could choose a midifile, load it into a sequencer, select the drum track and then cut the measures (bars) you like and import them into the keyboard; the only problem is that I don't know if the PX-5S only acknowledges a special format (maybe Mike or Jared can clarify here). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 The editor allows you to convert .MID files in to Phrases. There is room for 900 of them in the PX-5S 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyDaye Posted May 24, 2013 Author Share Posted May 24, 2013 I found a drum track I want to use. So now I want to load the midi file into the editor. I don't see where to load it so I can convert it to a phrase. I DID try dragging it into the page that says "PC Midi Data Files", but it doesn't seem to be able to move over to the right hand column called "PC Phrase Data Files". I don't know if I loaded it into the correct place in the editor. I'm lost....Are there any instructions posted anywhere to describe the process? Also, does the computer HAVE to be hooked up to the PX? I was planning on doing the conversion in the editor on the computer and then transferring the converted file to the PX using a USB stick.Thanks for any help getting through this.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamer Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Sonny, for more informations about the conversion process see pages 19-22 of the Data Editor manual.I can confirm that, to move the converted phrase to the right hand column, the PX-5S has to be hooked to the PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyDaye Posted May 24, 2013 Author Share Posted May 24, 2013 Thanks Dreamer!The computer doesn't seem to recognize the PX. In the editor, on the Preferences page, at the very top of the page, it says "disconnected". Next to the Auto Search box (which I've checked and unchecked multiple times) it says IN RED "Communication Error". I'm connected via USB.....I tried two different cords. When I plug in the cord, I do hear the Windows "blip" sound you hear when you plug in or out a device. I've also tried every way I know of to search for the device (I'm on Windows 7, 64 bit).On the PX, in Sys Setting, I chose Midi in USB Out Select. I'm baffled....any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianoralf Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) Hi Sonny,did you install the 64 bit USB driver BEFORE connecting the Piano to the Computer?I have installed the 32 Bit verison from the support page where you find both: link removedYou should unplug the piano and then install this driver.If it does not show the "USB Hardware connection and install Message" unplug the USB and try a different USB Port.If it still will not connect check if you had used an external USB Hub with no seperate power.If yes then look if you find a free USB Port which is directly connected to the mainboard.I am also interested in drum phrases. If anyone has converted some standard drum patterns please upload it hereRalf Edited May 28, 2013 by Mike Martin Links removed by Mike Martin - drivers not neccessary for the PX-5S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 NO! WAIT STOP!The PX-5S does NOT require a USB driver of any kind. That link is for a specific, much older product. The PX-5S is class compliant, you do not need a driver. It is "compliant" with the operating system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Also, does the computer HAVE to be hooked up to the PX? I was planning on doing the conversion in the editor on the computer and then transferring the converted file to the PX using a USB stick. The PX-5S does not be connected for this conversion to take place. You can copy the converted files over to the "MUSICDAT" folder on the USB drive and load them into the PX-5S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 SonnyDaye,In System Settings on your PX-5S, the PX-5S should be set like this: If you set the USB out Select to MIDI, the Output to the computer is the 5pin MIDI input, not the PX-5S itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyDaye Posted May 29, 2013 Author Share Posted May 29, 2013 Thanks guys for the input, and thanks Mike for straightening out the mis-information.I'm still at a dead end though. When I drag the midi file from the left to the right window to convert it in the Casio Data Editor, I get this message:Phrase Convert Error!It doesn't show up in the right hand window.Any idea what could be causing this?Thanks!EDIT: WHOOPS...I JUST FIGURED IT OUT!!In the editor, on the bottom, the channel was set to 1 (the default I guess).I took a chance and changed that to channel 10 since the midi file is a drum pattern.Sure enough, then it got converted.Now to check it out in the PX. I'll be back if I have any problems with it.Thanks!Sonny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianoralf Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 NO! WAIT STOP!The PX-5S does NOT require a USB driver of any kind. That link is for a specific, much older product. The PX-5S is class compliant, you do not need a driver. It is "compliant" with the operating system. Thank you for clearing that. Sunny reported not to have connection and this could be a problem of a USB driver.@Sunny: Please write how you were able to fix the connection error problem. Sometimes manufacturers give the advice first to install the driver from the "disc" or to download it before connecting the device it.Sorry if I gave this as a misinformation, but I think in our case it is harmless. The following lines are only for people who are interested in to understand in which cases a new driver will be installed.These things I recherched after I had massive problems with a specific version of a USB device with a divergent HardwareID which was not published yet.People in forums gave many advices which could not solve the problem. I tried to find out why and received the correct driver via email directly from the manufacturer. It is much complex and these description might be not complete, but it might help to understand.In our case it does not matter if there is a old casio USB driver on the computer.Windows assigns the drivers when you plug in a new device.The "plug and play" method specifies that a USB device has to commit a Hardware-ID when it is connected to a computer.Windows then compares this hardwareID with a list of hardwareIDs which come with the windows installation.These hardwareID are mapped to a specific "sys" and a "drv" files which are also delivered with windows.If necessary they will be extracted and stored in c:\Windows\System32\drivers\If there is a new USB device which needs a new driver the manufacturer can send it to Microsoft, which will include it in the next driver package update.But this will take some time and in some cases Microsoft will not update it automatically but put the new driver in the "windows update" resource area.So many manufacturers deliver a USB driver to download for the user.The installation procedure just adds an entry in the driverID list and puts the new files into the windows directory.Sometimes it adds an entry into the compatibility list.The CasioInstaller contains a "inf" file where you can find a line:USB\VID_07cf&PID_6801.DeviceDesc%=PL-40R.Dev, USB\VID_07cf&PID_6802Here the hardwareID "PIS_6802" is assigned as compatible to "PID_6801" which is known by windows. This effects if you connect a "6802 device" (PL40) to your computer windows will map it to the drives for 6801 and use their drivers (sys and drv files)Windows assigns the driver for each USB Port of the computer. This is the reason, why the "driver installation message" comes up again when you unplug the device and plug it into a different USB Port. This is also a workarround, if you have installed a wrong driver on a USB port. Then you have the chance to get the correct one, if you use a different port and select a correct one if windows asks to select a driver manually. But for the PX5S there is in fact a published driver induced in the windows driver package. The PX5S comes with a HardwareID windows normally already knows.If not windows will prompt that you should click on the "windows update" button.I found in my registry after connection with the PX5S the new Hardware-ID "PID_6803" and suggest this is the current one for the PX5S The USB driver which is linked on the casio downloadpage is different. It is for the PL40R with the ID: VID_07cf&PID_6802So windows handles this information for a independent device. This means that normally there will be no conflict, if the user had installed the old driver (PID_6802) before connecting the PX5S Ralf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyDaye Posted May 29, 2013 Author Share Posted May 29, 2013 Thank you for clearing that. Sunny reported not to have connection and this could be a problem of a USB driver.@Sunny: Please write how you were able to fix the connection error problem. RalfHi Ralf,When I was finally able to convert the midi file in the editor by changing the midi channel number, the editor STILL said "communication error" and "disconnected"!But, as Mike told us, the PX does NOT have to be connected to the computer to convert midi files. I'm just wondering if there is some OTHER process that I DO want to use the editor for, how DO I get connected? I won't worry about that for now.And you and I both are looking for sources of simple various drum patterns like you find on other Casio keyboards in their Rhythm sections. Hope we find them.Thanks!Sonny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 SonnyDaye,After changing the USB setting on the PX-5S did you restart the editor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianoralf Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Yes I can reproduce the behaviourIf I change the USB Out Select on the PX5S to "MIDI" and restart the editor, I will get the "disconnected" Message.If I change it back to "Key", then close the editor and then restart it, it is connected again.So the application will check if there is a PX5S connected to USB. This is a message from the operating system and assigns the specific USB port.If the USB installation had failed for any reason you will get the communication error.If the USB device is present. the application will send a message via that USB port to the device.The device will answer.This answer is directed to that "USB Out" which is assigned via the MIDI menu in the PX5S Sys-Settings.If the "USB Out" is assigned to "MIDI" the answer will go through the 5Pin MIDI Out and will not receive the PC editor.This will also cause a "disconnect" message.This is checked when the application starts.So like Mike described you should select "Key" for USB Out Select. If it still does not work scoll down in the Sys-Setting MIDI menu where you find "USB IN Enable". This must be assigned to "On"If it still does not work open in the DataEditor Application the menu "Preference".Here you can uncheck the Box MIDI Auto Search and look which devices are listed in the "MIDI IN" and "MIDI OUT" pulldown menu.If you don't find "CASIO USB MIDI" in that list the USB installation was not correct.Then try a different USB Port.If the CASIO USB MIDI is selected in both pull down menus recheck the "MIDI Auto Search" checkbox.If it still says "Communication Error" there could be an defect on the USB Cable, or the USB port on the Casio device. For me the data editor works fine and can be connected via USB. And I can use USB MIDI and 5pole MIDI at the same time If you are not able to connect the device via USB, you can connect the DataEdtior also via 5pole MIDI: I tried to connect the data edior via my firewire AudioInterface which adds MIDI to the computer.So I find an additional entry in my pull down list. I selected manually that device for MIDI IN and MIDI OUT in the editor MIDI menuIn fact the editor sends a MIDI SysEx command via the 5pole MIDI cable F0 44 17 02 7F 00 00 03 00 00 ... 07 00 F7and the PX5S answers with the message F0 44 17 02 7F 00 00 03 ... 07 00 50 58 2D 35 53 20 20 20 F7.The data editor says "Connecting..." and then "Connection OK"This configuration works if you selectMIDI Out Select "Key"USB Out Select "MIDI" (This is the difference to the connection via USB!)MIDI in Enable "On"USB IN Enable "On" So you have 2 alternatives to get a connection.Ralf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyDaye Posted May 29, 2013 Author Share Posted May 29, 2013 Ralf, thank you for your extremely detailed explanation. I think Mike should get you a job at Casio! (-:And, Mike, thank you for your tip.....I haven't had a chance to try it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianoralf Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Hi SunnyDaye,thank you for the flowers I have sucessfully converted a drum track.These steps I followed to extract and convert a drum track from a MIDI file into a phraseFirst I select "Phrase Convert"Then I dragged a MIDI file with the mouse into the left window "PC MIDI Data Files"Then selected the MIDI channel where the drum sound usually can be found.This is Channel 10. So I select Channel 10 in the Channel selection pull down menuI selected the "Convert Range" From "Beginning of the Song" to "End of Song"You should use a drum track which contains exactly 1 or more bars, because the Range function does not cut on the end of a bar. If you just want one bar you have to select a rage for that bar, but this could be impossible. Then I dragged the file into the right window "PC Phrase Data Files" This converts the drum track into a ZPH file.Now I select "Transfer" and find the converted file in the left window.I scrolled down the right window to find a free place and dragged the file into the right window "Px-5S"Then I selected a StagePreset, which contains Drums for Zone 1.For first test use preset 0-9 and turn off the Arpeggio Button. Then I selected the phrase number to play which I converted.- for a drum loop you have to select "loop" = on The result was that It plays the drums.Now we need advice how to add drums in any stage setup.Unfortunately the midi channel of zone1 must be 10 to get the drum track playing, but usually we have StagePresets with a normal sound on Zone1 Best greetingsRalf Edit: See my post below how with a solution for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyDaye Posted May 29, 2013 Author Share Posted May 29, 2013 .Now we need advice how to add drums in any stage setup.Unfortunately the midi channel of zone1 must be 10 to get the drum track playing, but usually we have StagePresets with a normal sound on Zone1That's funny Ralf.....I JUST sat down at my iPad to ask the SAME question!I don't understand why the drum phrase would HAVE to be on Zone 1.In any case, what I want to be able to do is have a drum pattern available to play in ANY Stage Setting. Am I correct that one of the zones would have to be dedicated to the phrase in EACH Stage Setting?Also, I can't figure out HOW to get a PHRASE saved in one of the zones in a Stage Setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianoralf Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Yes I expect that the phrase sequencer or the songsequencer should play the notes independent from the StageSetting. When you use a phrase with a DrumPattern you always have to configure Zone1 for dums. This is a discription how to use playing dums independ from the 4 Stage Zones Playing Drums by using the SongRecorder You only need once to configure all these parameters.After that you can edit the song by changing the phrase (drum loop) and press write.Then you get a copy with all these parameters and have one more "drum song" - First convert a Drumtrack to Phrase like I described above.- Then press the Song button- Then you read "Track Edit" where you press Enter.- Then you press "insert" key (Find as second function for Nr 1 Button in the StageSetting"- Then select the converted drum phrase and select the amount of repeatings. If the phrase is a looped one, it will play only once, so select the number of repeatings. If you have drum fills and variations press insert and select them as the next item. - Press Back and once "Key down" to go into the "Song Mixer" for that you have to press Enter again. Here Select:- Bank Select MSB = 120 (This selects the drum sounds !)- Program Change = 000 (or different Drum Set you like)- Channel = 10 (Important if you like to trigger an external MIDI device)- Volume = 100 (or other value you like)- Pan = 0- Coarse Tune = 0- Fine Tune = 0- Bend Range = 0- Chorus Send = 0- Delay Send = 0- Reverb Send = value you like for Drums- Generator OUT = ON (to use internal drums)- USB OUT = off (or on if you want to use a drum sound from the computer)- MIDI OUT = off (or on if you want ot use an external MIDI device) Then press exit and key down to select the Tempo you want.Don't forget to save the song. Then you can choose a Stage Setting you like and play the song with the drum you have assigned.When you press Start the tempo will be changed to the tempo of the song.When you change the stage setting during the playing song, the tempo will change to the tempo which is assigned to the Stagesettings' phrase.So you should not change the Stage setting during playing a song. If it is necessary you have to adjust the tempo in the stage settings to the song.EDIT: This behaviour can be prevented by the "Stage Setup Filter". If you go there "Sys Settings, General, Stage Set Filter" you will find the parameter "Tempo". Switch it to "On". This prevents the tempo been changed if you select a different stage setup.So this keyoard can be configured as a good drum machine which continues playing even if you change the stage setups" We can receive the "Song" into the Editior application (Via Transfer and "SongSequncer")I hoped that I could rename the Song.It is possible to the PC file, but I could not find out how to rename it on the "PX-5S" windows.I would like to rename Phrases on the PC-Editor, too, Best greetings fromRalf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyDaye Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 Ralf,Thank you for taking the time to share your discovery of this process. I'm sure it will be useful for others to utilize. However, to be honest, it really is too complex a process for me. I figure there must be an easier, shorter way to have a drum phrase be part of a stage setting....even if it involves giving up one of the Zones. I'm hoping I'm right and Mike will tell us the secret. If not, your process should wind up in the manual as a work-around. We'll see.Thanks again!Sonny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Very simple. 1. Edit the Stage Setting.2. Scroll down to the COMMON page. 3. Phrase is the second item on the list just below Tempo.You do have to have the drums on Zone 1. Why? Well my guess is because the amount of processing power that can be utilized for create different drum sounds that have not been possible on our previous products. I'll see if I can get a better answer from the team in Tokyo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyDaye Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 Very simple. 1. Edit the Stage Setting.2. Scroll down to the COMMON page. 3. Phrase is the second item on the list just below Tempo.You do have to have the drums on Zone 1. Why? Well my guess is because the amount of processing power that can be utilized for create different drum sounds that have not been possible on our previous products. I'll see if I can get a better answer from the team in Tokyo. Thanks Mike!! Just what I was hoping for....a simple solution. You always come through! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianoralf Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Hello,yes I agree that should be easier. But unfortunately it depends on a free Zone1 which must be configured for drum sounds. Steps for the method "Using the phrase attribute of a StageSetting"You have to convert MIDI Drum files to Phrases. (same as in songmethod)you have to convert all your stage settings, beause only ZONE 1 supports drum sounds.I don't know how to move Zone1 to an upper one with all the parameters by one click (maybe it is possible Mike will know)If you have more than 2 Zones it might be impossible, because Zone 3 and 4 don't support HexLayer Sounds.So you will not be able to convert all the sounds.I don't feel this to be easy. You are able to select a phrase and a tempo for the stage setting, and this drumphrase repeats without end.You have to adjust the keyboard range for the drum sounds.You have to play on Zone2 or upper and if you want to change the sound you have to select the higher zone first. You have no chance to start with precount then use variation1, fillIn, bridge, Chrous, fillin, variation2 and so on. I guess at the moment the method with the song sequencer seems to solve that. You only have to configure once a DrumSong.(This might be complex, but I uploaded a demophrase and a song with this parameters here)If you have stored this song in position 100, you are able to change the phrase to get a different drumloop.Then if you press "Write", the PX stores it automatically on a new position.That's all you have to do.So I think it can be easy, too.The advantage is:- You can use almost all you StagePreset with a playing drum loop,- You can even use it with StageSettings with 4 Zones.There is one thing you have to consider:If you change the StageSetting during playing a song, the tempo will be taken from the tempo which is assigned to the StageSetting.But if you start the Song again you have the original tempo again.This behaviour can be prevented by the "Stage Setup Filter". If you go to"Sys Settings, General, Stage Set Filter" you will find the parameter "Tempo". Switch it to "On". This prevents the tempo been changed if you select a different stage setup. I expect that Casio will impove that, so that Tempo will not change if the Stagesettings changes and a song plays at the same time.If urgently demand renaming phrases and songs in the data editor. The naming on the keyboard is too circumstantial.How can I save converted ZPH files from the Editor directly to the PC? It can be done by "Package Edit". But then you will get a Package file and not the ZPH, or ZSQ file to upload it to the forum. I will now use the way with storing it on the USB stick. Best greetingsRalf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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