Hugh O Kelly Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Is it just me who noticed but are roland pianos out of tune.Let me qualify this.Not long ago I bought a roland RD 64.I noticed it was out of tune.I thought bran new pianoMust go to the doctor and get a brain scan.But I then used the tuner in logic.The scale was way off.Two notes was -18 cents and two were +9 cents (100 cents in a semi tone ){ratio between one octave and another is 2:1.Therefore how to calculate say A at 220 and the next note is to multiply it by the Twelfth root of 2 12√2}Others were moving pitchSo I email roland and they say they are made like that. So I test my Yamaha P80.In perfect tune.Even the hammond was. So what I am wondering is are all roland pianos like that.So if you have a tuner or logic(with a tuner) and a roland piano would you test yours ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Display Name Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Wow.. maybe that's some sort of "realism algorithm"? IDK.. never heard of this before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I had an RD-700GX but never noticed anything like that. But, maybe that's why I ended up selling it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Foxe Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 There are two factors that will mess up your mathematics and may be the cause of your unexplained readings. 1 Equal Temperament. In my simple understanding, this is the mathematical averaging of the pitch gaps between the notes. Prior to the use of equal temperament, keyboards were tuned accurately to play in particular keys only (called "just tunings"). During the Baroque period (incl. JS Bach) and before there was a strong desire for a tuning which would enable modulations between keys and a more adventurous approach to composition and harmony. Bach's "The Well Tempered Clavier" was a series of pieces demonstrating the validity of using equal temperament. It was discovered that if musicians were able to live with some little pitch compromises, it was possible, and slight approximations were made to the tuning of certain degrees in the scale. If you want to test it out, try these fun things;(a) Using a digital keyboard, play middle C and the C above it. The notes will be very in tune and there will be no "beats" - those little vibrations that are not actually part of the notes but are the product of the two. ( Do the same with C and G, then with C and F. They will also be perfectly in tune.© Now the fun begins, Try it with C and E. You will hear a very subtle vibration or beat being created. Same if you play a C and A. This is a result of the notes being slightly out of tune- equal temperament at work. Obviously this affects the math too. By the way, unaccompanied choirs are not so affected by equal temperament as the singers tune to each other on a chord by chord basis. They can have a very pure sound with regard to pitch. Also, horn players when playing in a band play their notes a little differently depending on which key they are in. Vibrato helps you to not go crazy at this point. Kind of fuzzying the lines. Once you hear the out of tune-ness of equal temperament, you will either relax a little about pitch, or possible go stark raving mad trying to fix the world of music. I hope you choose the former 2 The Slant. In order for our ears to perceive very low notes or very high notes as being in tune, the pitch needs to be "bent". High notes need to be tuned sharp, and low notes need to be tuned flat. All piano tuners use this knowledge to a lesser or greater degree depending on what sounds best to them and you would be surprised how far the actual bend can be. It can be in the range of 20 cents at the extremes. Pianos tolerate the slant (also called the stretch) at the treble end well as the high notes have very little sustain.If you want to test this one, find a keyboard with a string sound or pure lead sound and play middle C and the highest C on the keyboard. Sometimes the high C will sound flat because the slant is not sufficently extreme. If you check it with a tuner it will measure as being in tune but it will sound wrong. This is simply a function of how we humans hear.By contrast, some keyboards will sound right but if you measure them the high note will appear to be sharp. Of the keyboards I have owned, the Rolands tended to sound more slanted than the Yamaha's but that was just a casual observation. (Of course the Casio's are perfect!) I don't know if either of these two phenomenons are the cause of what you observed but at least it may help you to feel that the world is less crazy than you suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Saucier Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Sloppy sample work? Since you describe 2 notes off here and 2 notes off there, I would suspect poor workmanship in the samples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh O Kelly Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Brad,It is more complicated than that for they are not even samples I don't know if you remember the roland mks 20 a piano rack years agoGreat piano module but they were not samples I've just found the term "Structured Adaptive" synthesisThat is now what they use in roland pianos and it sounds good if you like to blend in a band(with the enemy,guitar players) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh O Kelly Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 From one who has a certificate from steinway to say I know about tuningand spent 3 years learning how this is part of what I learned simply put. All tuning is out why? If you tune C up 7 octaves without beats you will get a high C……factIf you tune 13 x 5ths without beats you will get the same high C OR so you would think It is 1/4 of a tone sharp……………fact So we tuners have to loose that amount of "out of tune " over 12 notes,the scale4ths are tuned one beat sharp and 5ths are 1/2 beat flatthe 3 rd above middle is 8 beats sharpWhat you will find in a well tuned piano is the E above middle C and the C below middle C in other words the tenth will beat at 4 beats a second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Saucier Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Brad,It is more complicated than that for they are not even samples As soon as I posted that, I said to myself....Watch.....That Roland is probably not even a rompler board. wah wah wah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh O Kelly Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 For anyone who got up early this morningThe error in all tuning that's 1/4 tone outis mathematically the same as 360 compared with 365 1/4 get it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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