Keybed and successive single notes.

[XW-Addict]

So I'm no piano expert and since I've taken lessons since a year ago and had lesson on upright piano's. I have to say the weighted keys feel weighted not in the same sense on the real piano's I'm playing lessons at but weighted. As a stage piano the keys presses different when I press one note it presses way down in one go which I don't have on the lesson piano's.

 

Whats also different is the response when I press successive single notes, I am not an experienced piano player but If I compare playing successive single notes on the uprights and the PX5 i'm having more trouble doing it feels more sluggish while the lesson piano's seem to response quiet well, this bothered me thinking the PX5 I have has a defective keybed. The keys of the PX5 feels heavy more then the lesson piano's I cant place them if their weight more grand piano  style or some piano I don't know off.

 

Can someone enlighten me about this appreciate it. 

 

 

 

I 

[jaspeter]

The first thing I'd do is edit the Stage Setting - Common - Hammer Response and set it to zero.  That introduces a lag between the actual keypress and the sounding of the tone.  It's supposed to emulate the behavior of a real piano as the hammer takes time to move from rest position to the string.  I'm not really a big fan of it, although I understand why they put it there.

What I am a big fan of, however, is the three-sensor keybed.  Because of the extra sensor, they can do stuff like High-Res MIDI output (I'm also not a big fan of that) or, more importantly, restrike a key from a non-rest position.  That last part is cool!  In a good grand piano, the mechanism is designed to let you restrike a single note rapidly by not letting the hammer return to rest position.  The extra sensor in the PX-5S lets you do the same thing and it works.  I've noticed a big difference between this board and previous weighted ones in repeating a note.

As far as the weighted keyboard goes, even real pianos differ greatly from one make to another.  So I wouldn't be too concerned about that.  It comes down to personal feel.

 

You can also change the sensitivity of the keyboard in Sys Settings - Touch.  While it doesn't change the physical feel of the keys at all, it may change the relationship between what you're playing and what you're hearing to be closer to what you expect.

[Choppin]

XW-Addict,

 

I find the Px-5s keyboard extremely slow.  Like you said, the keys go down way too far before they sound and I think they have to come up too far before they can be presses to sound again.  I find playing the same note twice in quick succession almost impossible.  Even if I use try it using the index fingers from both hands (kinda like a finger drumming).  Trills/mordents don't sound right.  Either the keybed is slow or you and I are just terrible at playing it, or maybe both.  I'm getting used to it.  It's easier to play over time but the speed just isn't there.  It's very difficult to just glide the fingers over the keys.  Some notes might not sound, some you have to make sure to deliberate press hard.

 

I still like the Px-5s as a whole, but this has been one of the things that has really bothered me since day 1.  Playing Nice and slow or holding chords is great, but "tickling" the ivories is almost out of the question (for me at least).

[XW-Addict]

@Choppin exactly same here it made me kinda nervous.

[HectorSpace]

I think it must be tough being a keybed manufacturer! It is probably impossible to satisfy everyone's expectations!

Real pianos have many different actions and sounds.. I once owned a German 6' grand that had a lighter action than the Yamaha P250 that replaced it! I was horrified by the action on my Fender Rhodes stage 73! The five years I owned it, it did more harm to my technique than I care to remember.. Lol

A real Wurlitzer EP200a has a very shallow action that is more like a toy piano...

I really rather like the action on the PX 5, it is quiet heavy and clunky, it reminds me a bit of my mums piano... That I learnt to play on. It feels proper! Especially after the Nord Stage 2 HA 88, which had quiet a light action (Fatar TP 40 i think) that was ok, not that dissimilar to the Roland Rd700SX I also use currently. The big difference is the way Nord interpret the physical action into dynamics.. It really was almost impossible to play those lovely piano samples on the NS2. So I gave it back! The PX5 was a great piano right out of the box...

It's worth noting that Roland waver from light to heavy too. The RD700GX had quiet a heavy action in comparison to the SX, it was in my opinion more believably a piano if you closed you eyes. The RD700NX reduced the key weighting so it was more like the SX but with an Ivory effect surface and escapement simulation.. It too was a nice keybed to play on.. The new RD800 has, I believe a slightly heavier action!

Part of the problem is that synth and electric piano parts don't want or need a heavier action. They generally don't have the same dynamic range to control. What this leads to is that these parts often contain figures that are tough to play on a good piano keybed. In my opinion Nord make the call the wrong way by over lightening and compressing the keybed dynamics. Casio have chosen the better solution.

I suppose the important thing is to realise there is no single right answer.

[Choppin]

@XW-Addict.

 

You don't have to be nervous.  It's not broken, it's a slow action.  Strengthen your hands over time and eventually you'll get used to it.  I generally like the feel of the action in combination with the key texture, but I do not like the response when repeating  notes or quick playing.

[XW-Addict]

Its been a few day's now and I'm starting to get used to it even liking it, I found that learning to create finger pressure part of the mastery also.

First thing I did was following Mike Martins basic course which was a big help then randomly pressing buttons eventually I would find out the

general concept but I have a direct understanding of the stages setting now.

[aron]

Sorry to bring this back up, but I feel the same way right now. Repeated notes are difficult to play and I do agree that it seems that the key travel takes a long time before the sound will start. Then again, I am used to the Yamaha S90ES and P80 which I used for years. I have a Fatar but never really used it much live. I hope I can get used to the PX-5S because I do like it a lot. I'm just playing lousy jazz piano with it! It's obviously me because there's lots of people playing really fast on it.

XW and Choppin, did you get used to the action?

[Choppin]

I'm more used to the action, and there has been some wear as I've had the keyboard for a couple of years now.  I hadn't played an acoustic piano for some time and when I did recently, the key repeat was what I expected.  The PX is a great keyboard, but for me, the key repeat doesn't respond to the way I play.   So, maybe I never did get fully used to the action; then again, I don't practice for hours a day.

[aron]

The modification to velocity helps for rapid passages. It DOES make a difference. Yes, single key repeat cannot be made faster due to the physical nature of the slower action, BUT the modification to velocity does help. The PX-5S key repeat IS slower than a lot of acoustic pianos I have played. But I mainly play Steinway and Yamaha - not sure of other brands.

[Jokeyman123]

I play the PX350 not the PX5s but I believe the actions are identical-although the PX350 does not have some of the fine tuning as does the PX5s for key response. IMO having played many types of pianos-including the oldest Wurlitzer and Fender tine pianos, various grands and uprights etc. the PX action seems closer to the Steinway than to the uprights and console pianos I've played. Of course there is less sensitivity in the Casio, I could play a Steinway all day-the Casio gets my fingers tired after an hour or so so I think there is less of a "forgiving" nature in the key down and up response. I did notice after replacing both the top and bottom felt bumpers, it was easier to play trills and turns-I'm guessing this is because I shortened the total keystroke a miniscule amount-the key is now closer to the mechanism by a hair and although this sacrificed a bit of the sensation of being able to dig into 2-fisted chords, it does seem to make the response a ;little faster and it doesn't bottom out as hard-all acoustics have always felt more giving at key bottom-very importsnt to not developing carpal tunnel and other hand disfigurments. I always use Billy Joel's intro to "Angry Young Man" as a test. My old Fatar action keyboards seem to execute this pretty closely to the Casio. None of my digitals ever to seem to feel quite as resilient though in a passage like this as does a good acoustic-a poorly regulated acoustic will be as bad worse in my experience. Remember, Billy plays some pretty good pianos I think!

[aron]

Nice work with the felt! Interesting! I guess these slight mods make quite a difference for us!

[Nick]

When I bought the PX5s I was really happy with keys action. However, now is more than two years that I own the keyboard and I find that repeating notes with the privia can be rather difficult. Now, I understand that is a normal behavior of the keybed. I love all the feature of the PX5s, however I give up playing classical pieces with it. Because of that, in the future I have no intention to buy another privia. That said, I think that Casio is doing a great job and it is  bringing to the market good ideas that are driving also other companies. 

[XW-Addict]

On 5-3-2016 at 3:53 PM, Nick said:

When I bought the PX5s I was really happy with keys action. However, now is more than two years that I own the keyboard and I find that repeating notes with the privia can be rather difficult. Now, I understand that is a normal behavior of the keybed. I love all the feature of the PX5s, however I give up playing classical pieces with it. Because of that, in the future I have no intention to buy another privia. That said, I think that Casio is doing a great job and it is  bringing to the market good ideas that are driving also other companies. 

Ah but we learned why and there are work around for successive repeating notes, Some of the PX5S settings are deep, lots off members have found settings to change and program the way the key pressure feels and what not. I've missed to add those tons of useful tips within the PX5S  FAQ list started by Mike Martin. And it would be nice to have it grow like HappyRat did for the XW-series.