Clicky/clacky keys

[maurochefe]

Thanks Jokeyman123 again!!!

[PeteT]

Count me among those whose MZ-X500 has clickety-clackety-keys after 7 months of ownership and only about 20-40 hours of cumulative play time.  It’s going to the repair shop, (local, only 15 minutes away from my home).   

[vbdx66]

In my cas my CT-X800 had this issue only one month after having bought it. I would have returned it but it was a few days late so I sent it to the repair shop Instead under the warranty scheme. Unfortunately when it came back the issue wasn’t solved. I had more critical issues to sort out and sent it again to the repair shop during the last days of the warranty scheme.

I want the keyboard either to be repaired or replaced if they cannot repair it. On top of having clacky keys the sound of a few keys (including the C above middle C) is completely distorted.

[PeteT]

5 hours ago, vbdx66 said:

In my cas my CT-X800 had this issue only one month after having bought it. I would have returned it but it was a few days late so I sent it to the repair shop Instead under the warranty scheme. Unfortunately when it came back the issue wasn’t solved. I had more critical issues to sort out and sent it again to the repair shop during the last days of the warranty scheme.

I want the keyboard either to be repaired or replaced if they cannot repair it. On top of having clacky keys the sound of a few keys (including the C above middle C) is completely distorted.

vbdx66,

I understand.  One month is crazy!  The good thing you have is a longer warranty scheme.  Here in the States the warranty lasts 1 year.  But if they use the same kind of inferior felt, plastic lubricants and the keys are a poor design, it probably doesn’t matter.  I was going to buy a high quality, appropriate sized piano key felt and have the repair shop use that instead, but they say that it has to be replaced with Casio supplied felt or the warranty is voided.  It’s nonsensical.  C5-G5 and C6-G6 are the noisiest keys on my machine.  I’m sorry your having problems with your keyboard.  My heart really goes out to those of you who are primarily pianists/keyboardists.  I’m not.  I play alto sax, but want to continue to learn to play keys.  I bought this because of all the great features:  synthesis, arranger, pad functions, sampling, etc.  But even a novice is discouraged from playing a noisy board.🤷🏾‍♂️😢

vbdx66, I hope yours gets repaired well.

[PeteT]

After a long time not playing it, I wanted to share this regarding the keys on my MZX-500.  I’ve located a place here in town that manufactures rubber, plastic, silicone, even PTFE caps, plugs, grommets, etc.  These caps can be bought in standard or custom sizes.  I’m hopeful that they have something that will work for me.  Tbh, because of the problems that the keys have given me, (almost from the start), I haven’t played it much in the 2 years I’ve owned it.  In fact,  I recently bought a Yamaha DGX-670 that I love.  I still want to solve the problem of the Casio’s noisy keys.  I’ve included two pics I sent to the company that reveals what I plan to do.  If it works, I’ll let you know.  I’ve also bought and will install better foam strips between where the keys bottom out adjacent to the chassis/case. Maybe the foam and the rectangular caps can be a viable option for others to quiet their keyboard’s keys.

 

Pics:

 

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by PeteT

[drb32856]

PeteT, were you successful in your clacky key repair? I had given up using my MZ-X500 for that reason. Played it for the first time in over 3 yrs last week.

[Jokeyman123]

I don't own an MZ-X but-looking at these pictures-do these rubber tabs fit on only one side of the steel supports (I think these are steel or plastic?) or both sides?

 

If on both-I repaired a worn steel key tab like this that had a similar rubber boot cover (another model keyboard) with electrical shrink-wrap rubber tubing-the type used for insulating electrical wire splices-come in many sizes from very tiny-about 1/8" diameter to 1 1/2" diameter-when compressed flat. I buy mine in box sets of mixed sizes from Harbor Freight Tools but I'm sure identical sets are all over amazon, eBay electrical supply outlets. Might work at least for that specific repair.

[CYBERYOGI =CO=Windler]

I know terrible keys from toy-grade tablehooters. This black beauty distorts like a rhodes played through an e-guitar pedal by its rumbling yoghurt-cup grade plastic case.

 

http://weltenschule.de/TableHooters/Yongmei_YM-3300.html

 

In such trash keyboards even the plasticizer from the soft PVC "rubber" contacts (that stank like a fuel station) tend to turn the plastic into tacky mess, while the (fortunately metal based) ribbon cables turn brittle by loss of plasticizer. Silicone grease may temporary help, but a layer of felt or silicon based window insulation foam is the only reliable fix.

 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by CYBERYOGI =CO=Windler

[PeteT]

On 6/9/2022 at 9:34 AM, drb32856 said:

PeteT, were you successful in your clacky key repair? I had given up using my MZ-X500 for that reason. Played it for the first time in over 3 yrs last week.

@drb32856  I’ve been somewhat successful.  I couldn’t get the manufacturer here in town to make up a few hundred PTFE sleeves, (I was gonna share them with users here), in both sizes needed to cover the support ”pillars” located between both the natural and accidental keys.  So I decided to try a number of different ways to insulate the intersecting plastic parts.  What I finally did was these few things:

1.  I bought white self adhesive felt cut and attached it to the inside of each key on the closed end.  This somewhat effectively insulates the keys from the keybed supports beneath every key.  Note:  I haven’t done this to the accidentals, (black keys), simply because the space beneath the keys is really narrow.  It’s possible to do the accidentals.  I haven’t the patience for this, tbh.  Also, the black keys aren’t the problem.  It’s the white, (natural), keys.

2.  I attached self adhesive maple veneer to the underside of each natural key.  This is Kris Nicholl’s suggestion according to the video posted on this forum.  It works to both strengthen the plastic key sets and to soften the blow of the key(s) against the key support(s).  Kris applied the wood veneer to more areas of the keyset subassemblies.  I may do this since the board is still apart.

3.  I have also attached more insulation to the rows of existing foam insulation underneath and below the keysets.  I bought felt from the local craft/sewing store, got a roll of double sided adhesive tape, cut the tape to length, attached it to the wrong side of the felt, (matte finish side), and then cut the diy self adhesive tape/felt combo to length and width for each row of existing foam insulation.  Lastly, I secured the felt directly on top of the existing styrofoam insulation.  This has made a tremendous difference, especially to the row of sound deadening insulation underneath the keyboard case.  This is the area where the key returns to resting after being released by the player. The plastic appendage shaped like a  hook 🪝clacked as it returns to rest.  Now it doesn’t.  

At the outset I said I’ve been somewhat successful because I haven’t finished.  I need to know where to lubricate the keys and how much key grease should be applied there.  Can anyone help?

Please note:  I’ll answer any questions you have that I have answers to.  Also, please join in if you’d like to help make this amazing board play as quietly as it can.

 

🤦🏾‍♂️ RANT:  i’ve spent about $100* on materials needed to make the adjustments that I’ve made so far. Casio likely could’ve spent 50 bucks more on each keyboard to do what I’ve done.  Had they insulated the underside of each key with a sound deadening insulation we wouldn’t be here. Had they used more effective sound deadening insulation in the areas where the inferior insulation is applied, again we wouldn’t be here. So, for lack of insulation and/or better insulation, they’ve wasted money repairing and replacing unsatisfactory MZX 500’s.  This thing is packed with so many features it’s mind-boggling. Shift some of the money spent in R&D to better insulation alone and this board likely would’ve been legendary.  
I just don’t understand it…

 

*Clarification:  I have spent about $65.  Some of the supplies I bought I’ll use in the sewing that I do; so I can’t attribute the extra $35 to this project. I bought those things for this project, but don’t need them.  This may mean that Casio likely would’ve spent $35 or less if the one to one ratio as applied by me here were to hold true.  It likely would hold true because they wouldn’t have paid retail.

 

Pete

Edited June 12, 2022 by PeteT

[PeteT]

On 6/9/2022 at 3:44 PM, Jokeyman123 said:

I don't own an MZ-X but-looking at these pictures-do these rubber tabs fit on only one side of the steel supports (I think these are steel or plastic?) or both sides?

 

If on both-I repaired a worn steel key tab like this that had a similar rubber boot cover (another model keyboard) with electrical shrink-wrap rubber tubing-the type used for insulating electrical wire splices-come in many sizes from very tiny-about 1/8" diameter to 1 1/2" diameter-when compressed flat. I buy mine in box sets of mixed sizes from Harbor Freight Tools but I'm sure identical sets are all over amazon, eBay electrical supply outlets. Might work at least for that specific repair.

Jokeyman,

I didn’t get the PTFE tabs because the manufacturer was unwilling to make only a few hundred. They required the purchase be into the thousands. I understand why, but I can’t imagine ever using so many. So if you look at my previous post I explain what I did. Jokeyman, the rubber tabs were to fit on both sides of the plastic tabs/key supports.  So you think the ones from Harbor Freight might work for this?  I was going to re-grease the insides of the keyset subassemblies, but at some point in the future I’d have to disassemble the keyboard and relubricate it. I’d like to avoid doing this ever again, if possible.  I’ve spent more time repairing this keyboard than I have playing it. I became so frustrated with it, and to be honest I needed a digital piano, that I bought a Yamaha DGX 670.  It’s great! But, this thing could be too!

Thanks Jokeyman!

Pete

Edited June 12, 2022 by PeteT

[Jokeyman123]

A shame there isn't more cross-compatibility between "keybed"/keyboard manufacturers. I need to study your pictures again to see if what i am describing might work. Just happened to hop on the boards this minute. I had the same difficulty with the XW-P1 as you may have read earlier, where i did some modifications replacing the felt strips with piano felt-and have had to do this with several of my weighted boards, trying to avoid the carpal tunnel that can develop with many digitals due to the hard  impact without an escapement mechanism that softens the downstroke as on an acoustic piano, and that I feel even with 'spring-action" keys. If i could, I would replace the entire XW key assembly with something like a Fatar TP-9 or similar-a true semi-weighted spring action something similar to the 61-key Nords or other 61 key mechanical assemblies.  Would still need quite alot of additional felt under the keys to prevent the loud acoustic clunk on the plastic cabinets that these newer lightweight boards are designed with since these other 61-key designs are generally heavier, more substantial than the Yamaha PSR/ Casio CTK/WK etc. arranger and other keyboards.

 

On closer inspection-hard call. the type of rubber i am trying to describe-is tubular in several different diameters-sold in kits with various sizes, or for this re-engineering project, once you find the right diameter-you could order one size and cut to length to fit completely over each metal tab-providing the keys still clear-this rubber material is very thin but strong-meant to be used for electrical wire insulation-and with mild heat, shrinks to fit tightly around whatever you put it on. I used this to fit over very similarly-designed metal keytabs under my piano-weighted TP-40 Fatar Fusion piano keyboard, as several of the rubber covers were worn, had distorted and were causing several keys to get stuck-since the tolerances were very tight between the insides of the keys and these tabs-the rubber covers were binding against the insides of a few keys. Not sure about the wood veneer under the key-can provide some damping effect-if you were to fit the rubber tubing slightly longer  to extend past the top of the metal tabs, might also provide some quieting, if that in fact is what is causing the key clacking. Here is a picture of one example from the "Harbor Fright" catalog-not endorsing but just so you can see what I'm trying to describe. This is showing the 1/4" tubing, but under a heat gun or blow dryer will shrink to smaller than that, there are several diameters. A bit of key lube on these and you might solve the problem. I even use the largest diameter heat-shrink for better grip handles on my drumsticks, it works well.

 

Edited June 12, 2022 by Jokeyman123

[PeteT]

@Jokeyman123I’m in construction by trade and am going past Harbor Freight tomorrow.  I may stop in.  So would you recommend, if I decide to do this, I also lubricate the insulating shrink wrap from Harbor Freight?  Is the shrink wrap tubing reasonably slick?  I bought some Yamaha key grease online.  It’s far better than the lube Casio applied to this keyboard.

Thanks again, @Jokeyman123

[PeteT]

@Jokeyman123what you described will work as long as the shrink wrap responds as does other wrap I’ve used. I hadn’t thought about this solution nor about Harbor Freight. The idea is brilliant!!!

The guys and gals on this forum make learning to play keys again all the more enjoyable!

Thanks to everyone!

Pete

Edited June 12, 2022 by PeteT

[Jokeyman123]

I think it is pretty slick, you'll see for yourself-as long as they have it in stock-usually they have plenty but not sure exactly in what form. I still have pieces from the assorted size boxes, but I recall there are specific loops in one size like my picture. It's pretty resilient, but not overly soft-so far in my Alesis Fusion so good, and this thing has heavy weighted keys. Let me know how it goes. A little lube would probably insure that the rubber doesn't get worn too quickly if its rubbing/hitting the keys up inside, and of course would be a bit quieter in case the rubber dries out after awhile.

[drb32856]

On 6/8/2022 at 10:52 PM, Brad Saucier said:

I don't know what the FA can do, but I can tell you what the PX can do, then you can decide what's usable. 

 

One word, stage settings, well that's two words.  😅 Stage settings can create song ready setups.  Each stage setting is a snapshot of performance related settings on the instrument. You have 4 zones to work with, each zone fully configurable.  A zone can control internal sounds, MIDI output, USB output, or any combination of the three. A zone can select an internal tone, or an external patch with bank and program change data you program in each zone.  A zone can be also be any range of keys, and any range of velocity thresholds.  You can name each stage setting, 100 in total on the board itself.  Stage settings can be selected through MIDI with NRPN data or bank and program change data.  

 

On 6/12/2022 at 6:49 PM, PeteT said:

@drb32856  I’ve been somewhat successful.  I couldn’t get the manufacturer here in town to make up a few hundred PTFE sleeves, (I was gonna share them with users here), in both sizes needed to cover the support ”pillars” located between both the natural and accidental keys.  So I decided to try a number of different ways to insulate the intersecting plastic parts.  What I finally did was these few things:

1.  I bought white self adhesive felt cut and attached it to the inside of each key on the closed end.  This somewhat effectively insulates the keys from the keybed supports beneath every key.  Note:  I haven’t done this to the accidentals, (black keys), simply because the space beneath the keys is really narrow.  It’s possible to do the accidentals.  I haven’t the patience for this, tbh.  Also, the black keys aren’t the problem.  It’s the white, (natural), keys.

2.  I attached self adhesive maple veneer to the underside of each natural key.  This is Kris Nicholl’s suggestion according to the video posted on this forum.  It works to both strengthen the plastic key sets and to soften the blow of the key(s) against the key support(s).  Kris applied the wood veneer to more areas of the keyset subassemblies.  I may do this since the board is still apart.

3.  I have also attached more insulation to the rows of existing foam insulation underneath and below the keysets.  I bought felt from the local craft/sewing store, got a roll of double sided adhesive tape, cut the tape to length, attached it to the wrong side of the felt, (matte finish side), and then cut the diy self adhesive tape/felt combo to length and width for each row of existing foam insulation.  Lastly, I secured the felt directly on top of the existing styrofoam insulation.  This has made a tremendous difference, especially to the row of sound deadening insulation underneath the keyboard case.  This is the area where the key returns to resting after being released by the player. The plastic appendage shaped like a  hook 🪝clacked as it returns to rest.  Now it doesn’t.  

At the outset I said I’ve been somewhat successful because I haven’t finished.  I need to know where to lubricate the keys and how much key grease should be applied there.  Can anyone help?

Please note:  I’ll answer any questions you have that I have answers to.  Also, please join in if you’d like to help make this amazing board play as quietly as it can.

 

🤦🏾‍♂️ RANT:  i’ve spent about $100* on materials needed to make the adjustments that I’ve made so far. Casio likely could’ve spent 50 bucks more on each keyboard to do what I’ve done.  Had they insulated the underside of each key with a sound deadening insulation we wouldn’t be here. Had they used more effective sound deadening insulation in the areas where the inferior insulation is applied, again we wouldn’t be here. So, for lack of insulation and/or better insulation, they’ve wasted money repairing and replacing unsatisfactory MZX 500’s.  This thing is packed with so many features it’s mind-boggling. Shift some of the money spent in R&D to better insulation alone and this board likely would’ve been legendary.  
I just don’t understand it…

 

*Clarification:  I have spent about $65.  Some of the supplies I bought I’ll use in the sewing that I do; so I can’t attribute the extra $35 to this project. I bought those things for this project, but don’t need them.  This may mean that Casio likely would’ve spent $35 or less if the one to one ratio as applied by me here were to hold true.  It likely would hold true because they wouldn’t have paid retail.

 

Pete

Thanks for your time and effort. I hope it pays off in a quiet and long lasting keyboard. 🎹👍🏾

[PeteT]

Hey everyone!  Could someone please comment on how and where to lube the keys in general?  Thx!

Pete

[Popsel]

Hello,
after the warranty expired I made this:

https://youtu.be/hKmwAEeHRF0

 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Popsel

[Jokeyman123]

Popsei-never thought of that-the paper cutter is a great idea with felt sheets which are a good thickness to add into the Casios-and others too. Nice Youtube-must have taken quite a bit of time to video this process. Very nice.

[PeteT]

Popsel, I agree with Jokeyman.  Thank you for spending so much time and effort to upload this video to YouTube. I lined the insides of the white keys with self-adhesive white felt and this reduced the noise tremendously. But then I took it out and I’m going to lubricate them the way that you do. I bought some Yamaha key grease and your video helps me to see where I should put that grease. The bottoms of the keys, (which come into contact with the top of the supports between each of the white keys where the fingers normally hit), I lined those with self-adhesive maple veneer to strengthen the key and soften the blow of the key against the top of the support. The felt would’ve worked inside the keys except for the fact that the keys didn’t move as freely as they should. If I had gotten a less dense and thinner felt it probably would’ve worked.  Thanks again Popsel!

Pete

[Popsel]

Hello,
I would not support any key with anything. As seen in the video, the keys are only held by a thin piece of ABS plastic. This part should remain elastic. Otherwise, the load on the plastic will be on a very small area, increasing the risk of breakage. Also, I would not glue anything to the inside of the keys, which increases the weight of the keys. This also increases the load on the flexible part and the keys react more sluggishly. The adhesive usually contains solvents, which can attack the ABS plastic of the keys. It is better to protect the keyboard from sunlight (UV radiation) with a black keyboard cover when not in use. This way, the keys will not yellow and the plastic will hopefully keep its properties for a long time. Higher-end keyboards use a coil spring for each key, which can be replaced.
But it is what it is. In any case, I've noticed a significant haptic improvement since the greasing.
Best regards

Popsel

[PeteT]

Hey everyone,

I don’t know what got into me, but I redid the keys and lubricated everything following the advice of Popsel. My only deviations from his advice were that I left the maple veneer in place underneath the tops of the keys to give them a bit more rigidity. I also left the white felt in place on the sides of the underside of the keys. I used two layers of felt to cushion and absorb the noise from the key stops.  Both the underside and topside foam strips, (inside and outside the housing), were done.  The keybed is firmer, more quiet, and worlds better than before. Casio should have spent $25 more on production materials. But, it’s better now. I’ll attempt to attached a video so as to show how it sounds. I’m a horrible keyboard player, so excuse the sounds emanating from the keyboard.🥲😆