Computerless USB-MIDI Solutions for the Modern Casio User (Connecting USB-MIDI Devices without a Computer)

[Chandler Holloway]

Updated the list to include the midiplus USB-Host device as it's becoming another popular low cost option. It also ships from Amazon, which is unique among the other prebuilt options I have listed.

[Jokeyman123]

Here's another type I just found on that auction site that starts with an E, if you search for midi host or midi host box on E***, you will find it. Only provides a midi output and can't be used with a hub, but a little less expensive-its a home-made module. 

[OogieWaWa]

I got referred to this thread because I asked a question on the WT xx / CTK-7200 forum.  I think I may have a instance for one practical application of this topic.

 

I'm basically a M-IDIot, although I did use some MIDI equipment many many moons ago; still have some cables, in fact.  But it doesn't help.  Maybe you kind folks can.

 

Basically I play bass guitar in a gigging 3-piece cover band.  I got a CTK-7200 so that I could add some extras when we're playing; the flute, piano, horn/string/vocal sections on certain songs.  The problem obviously is that playing both a keyboard and a bass simultaneously is not an easy thing to do.  Splitting the keyboard doesn't help much, my left hand doesn't 'bass' well while being independent of my right hand.

 

So I was wondering about using a foot pedalboard to keep the bass line going.  I learned music playing a spinet organ four or five decades ago, and I got pretty good at the pedals.  Looking at the hardware options, most pedalboard setups would involve not only the board, but also a synth and associated gear.  Fairly bulky, complex, much more to set up, etc.

 

And I'm looking at the CTK, which has a MIDI USB port, and I see (in my mind, anyway) that there is a channel specific to MIDI.  I'm thinking maybe it might be possible to use a MIDI pedalboard as an input to the CTK and let it generate the sound.  So no additional synth, audio signal chain, amp, etc. besides the CTK.

 

Is this even possible?

 

Since most traditional pedalboards have a conventional 5-pin DIN MIDI out, I'm thinking these devices discussed here would be the correct interface, with the signal from the pedalboard going to the MIDI IN, and the MIDI USB going to the keyboard (as an OUT) with the interface being the Host.  For newer pedalboards also with a USB MIDI connection, I was thinking I could get to one of the interfaces, go MIDI OUT to MIDI IN to another one, and follow the first way up to the keyboard.  Am I totally off bass here?  (Pun accidentally typed!)

 

Plus then the other issue is how to get the keyboard to recognize the data coming in as individual note information.  I know MIDI can carry a large diversity of information; is that part possible? I 'm not looking at issuing any sequence, program, tone, patch or other info, just a series of notes.

 

So, is there any hope of getting something like this to work?  Or should I just concentrate on tap playing the bass with my left hand, keyboard stuff on the right, and just be happy with that?

 

Thank you very much to anyone who could give me a little help on this, it'd be muchly appreciated.

[Jokeyman123]

Hmmm....i would have sworn this topic was posted already. and i thought I had responded, but my post seemed to disappear. The answer to your question-of course you can do this. The CTK responds to any of 16 midi channels-depends on what you pedal unit is designed to do. i was curious so I looked up some of the newest units. Hammond and Studiologic  make these, the least expensive I could find was still 400+ so not an inexpensive solution, but both are one octave-the Studiologic makes an expanded one-13 or 17 pedals, looks real nice, hmmm....

 

https://studiologic-music.com/products/mp_pedalboard/

 

The catch is that these pedals look like the midi out connection is a midi din,  so you will need to purchase one of the midi USB host boxes such as the ones referenced in Chandler's post, and see the one above in this post although i don't know if these are made anymore. I use the Midiplus host box for my Casios that have only the USB port out-to connect to my other midi din music equipment, and it works fine. The other gotcha that I can't help with...not sure if this pedalboard can be set to a specific keyboard zone. If it sends in one zone-you will have to set up the CTK, probably with a registration setting to save it-to set up a split-so one octave of the CTK will respond to the pedalboard, and the rest will be playable with a different tone if you need to do that. Or simply setting up a split on the CTK might accomplish the same thing, I would think that is do-able. Of course, the traditional Hammond pedals for bass would trigger one or the other of the manuals if memory serves me, been awhile on a real Hammond. Do in a sense, it was capable of splitting the sound just as you are trying to do. 

 

I thought the last I looked this up, i had found a 3rd company that makes these midi din style pedalboards for around 500, but I can't seem to find it now. 

[Jokeyman123]

Found it, Crumar Mojopedals. also is midi din. has a USB port-but this port is for connection to a computer-not the Casio port. I guess it must be for connecting to a computer for programming it? Not sure on this one, I did not see if there is an online manual-I'm surprised to see Crumar back in business!  My first (eekkk!!) electronic "piano" was a Crumar Roadrunner "piano"-sounded like I was hitting bedsprings with a loofa.....

[IanB]

I appreciate that this won't have any effect on Casio policy, but I think this decision is misguided. Labelling the real MIDI standard as "legacy" is a little disingenuous. One of the main reasons it has lasted so long is that it is a simple but powerful protocol. As it consists of nothing more than a current loop serial link running at a low speed, it can transmit large distances down cables. It is very easy to encode and decode using low technology- an 8 bit microcontroller which makes it flexible for amateur electronics. This is not true for USB, which adds a massive protocol overhead and reduced utility, since as admitted above it's a host/client protocol, and takes a low speed stream of data, pointlessly embeds it in a much more complex protocol, demands an extra control layer, then decodes it back down to what can be achieved just by waggling one connecting wire on and off at 31kHz.

I understand that from a commercial production standpoint this may save up to several pennies per keyboard at the production stage, but it is still a little disappointing. Of course, I'm sure the ability to have hapless users stare hopelessly at "USB device not recognised" messages and give them a chance to be advised to reinstall the drivers and switch it off and on again, I'm sure that's worth it.

[OogieWaWa]

17 hours ago, Jokeyman123 said:

Hmmm....i would have sworn this topic was posted already. and i thought I had responded, but my post seemed to disappear. The answer to your question-of course you can do this.

Might have got dropped when my original post was merged to both CTK forums.

 

Thanks for the reply, it definitely helps sorting this out.

 

The manual doesn't help much.  It looks like it's fairly straightforward to send a MIDI note stream out to another device, but I don't see where it would let me bring anything in.  It looks like all of the A 1-16 channels are out only, and the B 1-16 channels are all involved in triggering sequences.  I'll have to do some more research.

 

I saw one of the used Studiologic units dirt cheap on a non-music-related website, but someone must have snapped it up.

 

Another alternative would be a Keith McMillen Instruments 12 Step USB MIDI Bass Pedal, around $300.  Questionable usability and robustness, and a USB out that would have to be dealt with to get to MIDI and back.  https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/12Step--keith-mcmillen-instruments-12-step?mrkgadid=3301332258&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=gpla&mrkgbflag=0&mrkgcat=keyboards&synthesizers=&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=92700046934851100&lid=92700046934851100&ds_s_kwgid=58700005285192879&ds_s_inventory_feed_id=97700000007215323&dsproductgroupid=441794846813&product_id=12Step&prodctry=US&prodlang=en&channel=online&storeid={product_store_id}&device=c&network=g&matchtype=&locationid={loc_phyiscal_ms}&creative=280136036089&targetid=pla-441794846813&campaignid=1465808368&gclid=Cj0KCQjwyur0BRDcARIsAEt86IAFLIQvvT72K4TAWKyXDRj_sWJnRsoaTgGdiLrnJSgUVJ6PsCe0g50aAhdTEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

Need to do some more research.  Thanks again for the help!

[anotherscott]

1 hour ago, OogieWaWa said:

The manual doesn't help much.  It looks like it's fairly straightforward to send a MIDI note stream out to another device, but I don't see where it would let me bring anything in.  It looks like all of the A 1-16 channels are out only, and the B 1-16 channels are all involved in triggering sequences.

 

 B 1-16 should work fine as MIDI In.

[Chandler Holloway]

I'll be updating the guide shortly to include two new developments.

 

One is great news for super budget users who might have been considering the RPi option as a possible solution, but were worried that it would be too complicated to set up. Neuma Studio recently documented the process of setting up an RPi USB-MIDI host with more recent information and easy to follow step by step instructions. He also included a ready-made disk image that can be written to a blank MicroSD card using Etcher for a more streamlined "plug and play" solution to configuring the RPi.

 

He also profiles some extra goodies I have not seen mentioned in other RPi midi guides, like the ability to set up Bluetooth MIDI and mount an LCD screen to help monitor connected devices.

 

For users interested in an ultra-portable, all-in-one RPi host solution, I will be adding links to the RPi entry that will cover the PiJuice HAT, a battery pack add-on for the RPi that allows you to take it on the go. It offers very useful features for gigging users like the ability to charge the battery via 5V usb while in use, a charge level LED indicator and a configurable power saving sleep mode that kicks in after periods of inactivity. It is attached directly to the RPi and is compatible with plastic enclosures that can make the whole RPi package very robust.

 

The RPi option is definitely one you should consider if you're looking to connect USB devices to other USB devices and DIN-MIDI isn't as much of a priority. Hopefully these new developments will make it more appealing to users who might have initially overlooked it.

 

As far as the pre-built options, I've recently been informed that the RetroKits RK-005 is being phased out in favor of the new RK-006. Fear not; the RK-006 is just as capable as the RK-005 and is unique among a lot of the pre-built options in terms of the ability to connect USB-MIDI devices to other USB-MIDI devices as well integrate older analog DIN-SYNC gear into modern set-ups.

 

The 006 has added a whopping 10 configurable MIDI/DIN-SYNC outputs as well as two separate DIN-MIDI inputs in addition to the USB-MIDI host capabilities (expandable to extra USB-MIDI devices with a USB hub). It is far more configurable than the previous 005 and has the ability to save presets to onboard memory if you need to quickly switch between different routing set-ups in a performance scenario. It also comes standard with an enclosure and got even smaller than the RK-005.

 

The one drawback is that they switched to TRS 1/8" MIDI instead of the full sized DIN-MIDI ports on the RK-005. This sacrifice was made to keep the device compact and reduce the cost of manufacturing (the RK-006 sells for almost the exact same price as the 005 despite all the improvements). This means you will need TRS to DIN-MIDI adapters if all your gear uses the old full size cables. They do sell a bundle starter pack with some adapters and the host unit on their website, but you can purchase them from other online distributors if it's cheaper. They're a European company, so it'll probably be cheaper and faster to get the adapters from another source if you're buying here in the states. Note that you'll want to get adapters that use the TRS-A MIDI pinout and not TRS-B.

 

I snagged an RK-006 to use in my home studio set-up (the Kenton is still what I use when I'm out gigging) and it's great. Very easy to use and super flexible, plus I have all the outputs I need and more. Fortunately I didn't have a ton of DIN-MIDI cables to begin with so I'm not having to buy like a dozen  adapters just to get everything hooked up.

 

 

[stip]

Expensive experiment…
I received the Kenton MIDI USB Host today, but the LED keeps flashing, meaning: It doesn't recognize it, although the Privia is class compliant. I connected the mini midi split cable on the Yamaha CP Reface with the Kenton USB Host's midi slots and plugged the USB cable to the USB outlet of the Privia PX-160. Keeps flashing. Is there another step involved?

[Chandler Holloway]

On 4/23/2020 at 8:36 AM, stip said:

Expensive experiment…
I received the Kenton MIDI USB Host today, but the LED keeps flashing, meaning: It doesn't recognize it, although the Privia is class compliant. I connected the mini midi split cable on the Yamaha CP Reface with the Kenton USB Host's midi slots and plugged the USB cable to the USB outlet of the Privia PX-160. Keeps flashing. Is there another step involved?

 

@stip There shouldn't be. I also have a Yamaha Reface CP, and have confirmed it works for me with my Kenton and a CT-X700 (same Class Compliant MIDI). But in any case, connecting the PX-160 should cause the green status LED to stop flashing and stay solid whether or not you have anything connected to the DIN-MIDI ports, so we'll try to focus on that for now.

 

It's possible that you might have accidentally put the PX-160 into Storage mode (for file transfer) instead of MIDI mode. That's the only thing that could potentially stop it from outputting MIDI as far as the internal settings are concerned. See pages EN-26, EN-27, and EN-28 in the manual for info. To disable Storage mode, you would use Function + E7 (highest E on the keyboard, it's one of the unlabeled keys to the right of the Three Touch Resonse setting keys). If that works, great.

 

If not, you have some options for troubleshooting.

 

1) Connect the PX-160 to your computer running some sort of MIDI software (a DAW would work fine if you have one, MIDI-OX is a free software MIDI monitor that would allow you to track all the MIDI messages being sent from the Privia). If you can get something else to respond to PX-160's MIDI output, then we'll know it's not the USB printer cable you're using or any of the PX-160's settings.

 

2) Try connecting the USB output of the Yamaha Reface CP to the USB input on the Kenton and see if the indicator light stops flashing. This would mean that the Kenton and your USB Printer cable are both working, and the problem is with the PX-160. 

 

Did you buy your Kenton used, or new? If it's used, there's a possibility that you don't have the most recent firmware. I don't know why having an older firmware would completely prevent the PX-160 from establishing a MIDI connection, but try updating the firmware just in case. Here's the link to Kenton's firmware update page.

 

 

 

 

[Chandler Holloway]

After lots of delays, I have updated this guide to correct inaccuracies and highlight new and exciting USB-MIDI host options. I already previewed some of the new developments in an earlier post:

On 4/22/2020 at 12:26 AM, Chandler Holloway said:

One is great news for super budget users who might have been considering the RPi option as a possible solution, but were worried that it would be too complicated to set up. Neuma Studio recently documented the process of setting up an RPi USB-MIDI host with more recent information and easy to follow step by step instructions. He also included a ready-made disk image that can be written to a blank MicroSD card using Etcher for a more streamlined "plug and play" solution to configuring the RPi.

 

He also profiles some extra goodies I have not seen mentioned in other RPi midi guides, like the ability to set up Bluetooth MIDI and mount an LCD screen to help monitor connected devices.

 

For users interested in an ultra-portable, all-in-one RPi host solution, I will be adding links to the RPi entry that will cover the PiJuice HAT, a battery pack add-on for the RPi that allows you to take it on the go. It offers very useful features for gigging users like the ability to charge the battery via 5V usb while in use, a charge level LED indicator and a configurable power saving sleep mode that kicks in after periods of inactivity. It is attached directly to the RPi and is compatible with plastic enclosures that can make the whole RPi package very robust.

 

The RPi option is definitely one you should consider if you're looking to connect USB devices to other USB devices and DIN-MIDI isn't as much of a priority. Hopefully these new developments will make it more appealing to users who might have initially overlooked it.

 

As far as the pre-built options, I've recently been informed that the RetroKits RK-005 is being phased out in favor of the new RK-006. Fear not; the RK-006 is just as capable as the RK-005 and is unique among a lot of the pre-built options in terms of the ability to connect USB-MIDI devices to other USB-MIDI devices as well integrate older analog DIN-SYNC gear into modern set-ups.

 

The 006 has added a whopping 10 configurable MIDI/DIN-SYNC outputs as well as two separate DIN-MIDI inputs in addition to the USB-MIDI host capabilities (expandable to extra USB-MIDI devices with a USB hub). It is far more configurable than the previous 005 and has the ability to save presets to onboard memory if you need to quickly switch between different routing set-ups in a performance scenario. It also comes standard with an enclosure and got even smaller than the RK-005.

 

The one drawback is that they switched to TRS 1/8" MIDI instead of the full sized DIN-MIDI ports on the RK-005. This sacrifice was made to keep the device compact and reduce the cost of manufacturing (the RK-006 sells for almost the exact same price as the 005 despite all the improvements). This means you will need TRS to DIN-MIDI adapters if all your gear uses the old full size cables. They do sell a bundle starter pack with some adapters and the host unit on their website, but you can purchase them from other online distributors if it's cheaper. They're a European company, so it'll probably be cheaper and faster to get the adapters from another source if you're buying here in the states. Note that you'll want to get adapters that use the TRS-A MIDI pinout and not TRS-B.

 

I snagged an RK-006 to use in my home studio set-up (the Kenton is still what I use when I'm out gigging) and it's great. Very easy to use and super flexible, plus I have all the outputs I need and more. Fortunately I didn't have a ton of DIN-MIDI cables to begin with so I'm not having to buy like a dozen  adapters just to get everything hooked up.

 

The other additions are the DOREMiDi USB-MIDI host options (including the high-speed, firmware updateable variant that's slightly more expensive), and the iConnectivity mio4 being swapped out for the updated (and much more capable) mioXM.

 

Hope this helps! If anyone has experience with the DOREMiDi, please share. It has an enticing price point and the build quality looks good, but it looks like it's from a relatively new company based in China, so I'd like to hear feedback from users here before I can fully recommend it.

[Jokeyman123]

Here's a picture....

https://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/19448-new-midi-host-box-for-keys-that-do-not-have-midi-din/&tab=comments#comment-66439

[Hiroaki Satake]

I bought DOREMiDi and it works well with my CDP-S150 (and Roland Boutique JD-08).

Thanks Chandler!