Transposing When Using Registrations

[jeffn1]

I am playing a song in another key and "cheat" by transposing the keyboard, how do I do it if I am using more than one registration "part" (I think that is what they are called).

 

For example, I have an organ and sax part I want to use in a song.  I want them both transposed a half step from concert pitch.

 

It seems when I use function transpose key I usually use, it returns to the un-transposed key whenever I switch between the organ and the sax within the registration bank.

 

I think I am figuring out that I would have to transpose and save the part (so the transposition would be included whenever I play the part) .  Of course, if I did that, whenever I went to that registration bank/part, it would not be the normal key (it would be the transposed key).

 

Is this pretty much right?  (If I used a sound outside of a registration bank and a transposed the keyboard, I think keyboard would stay transposed for whichever sound I used).

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff

[- T -]

Jeff

 

Registrations are not limited to "parts" or "tones" or "rhythms", etc.  ALL Registrations are GLOBAL.  That is, when you create (save) a Registration, you are pretty much saving the current global set up of the entire keyboard into it.  If you have a Registration that includes tranposition information, but the transpose is lost when you switch to a different Registration, it just means that the keyboard was not transposed when the Registration you are switching to was saved.  You just need to switch to that Registration, transpose the keyboard, and then resave that Registration to its same Bank and Registration number.

 

Refer to the Parameter List near the back of your keyboard's manual.  It lists the various parameters that are include in the keyboard's various "save" functions.  Column 2 of this list is for Registrations.  Any item with a circle in Column 2 is "saved" as part of a registration.  That is to say: ALL items with a circle in Column 2 are saved into a Registration when it is created or updated.

 

 

 

 

[jeffn1]

Yep, T, I think I got it.  Thanks!

 

[jason raj]

But whats the point if everytime when u transpose for every song u need to save it.it would be better if the transpose r maintain n does nt change when registration button change

[Jokeyman123]

????

[- T -]

To do what you want would defeat the purpose of the registration.  The registration''s purpose is to set up the entire keyboard for the song (or part of song) that you are about to play, and that set up is a complete package. It's all or none at all, and transposition is included. by the keyboard's operating system, as an integral part of that package.  If you want to use a constant transposition along with registrations, then each registration must include the desired amount of that transposition, otherwise, the first registration loaded that does not include that transposition offset amount will force the keyboard back to its default transposition of zero. . . . . AND this applies to every one of the settings in the "Registration" column of the keyboard's Parameter List in the manual.  The user can not pick and choose which of these items are or are not included in a Registration.  They are all included in every Registration you create, so you must be certain that every one of these items is at its desired setting when the Registration is created, or the results will have unexpected surprises.  Any item that has a value that is offset from its default value, and that offset is expected to remain constant through a "series" of Registration changes, must have that offset value embedded in every Registration in that "series".

 

There are middle and top of the line arranger keyboards, by other manufacturers, whose registrations do exactly what you want, but creating them can be a real chore, or even an absolute nightmare, depending on what all you want them to do.  Each registration contains a checklist of a couple dozen items that specify what that particular registration is allowed or not allowed to change when it is loaded.  In your case, you could manually set a fixed tranpose amount and tell any registration you create that it is not allowed to change the transpose amount.  So, it would change the tones, the rhythm pattern, and the tempo, per your specifications, but would leave the transposition alone, but even here, it must be told by you, the user, to leave the transposition alone.  Now, that said; the lowest priced middle of the line models with these capabilities sell for considerably more than double what the Casio CTK/WK-6XXX/7XXX models sell for, and the top of the line models that can do this are currently going for about 7 times the price of the Casio's.  The Casio registrations are just not that sophisticated.  It can be had, but at price.

 

- T -

 

[jeffn1]

Jason Raj, so I think the answer (work around) is:

 

 1.  For songs where you are transposing, do not use Registrations for those sounds.

or

2.  If there is a reason you really need to use a Registration (e.g., you are using split keyboard for some parts, etc) for multiple sounds, edit all the tones you need by transposing them and save them (user tones) and then use them within the Registrations.  (Then you will be stuck with that transposed version of all the parts. . . and use up user tone and registration slots.)

 

I think this is right. . . . .

[- T -]

Jeff

 

As long as you are using registrations simply to change (select) specific items such as tones or rhythms, then this problem does not arise, but when you include the offset of a global parameter such as transpose, or split point, or split on/off, or layer on/off etc, things get more complicated.  You must immediately give some thought as to whether you want that global offset to continue unchanged into the "next" registration, or end, or change to some other offset value, and then design (set up and save) both the current and "next" registrations accordingly.  Not to sound, at all, snarkish about this, but anything short of this is kind of like expecting the keyboard to "read your mind".  All of this should be possible without needlessly wasting User Tone, User Rhythm, or Registration memory slots.  There are professional gigging musicians on this and other forums, who play these and/or other keyboards, that have had to resort to extensive use of registrations, in order to survive the rigors of professional gigging.  I think most of them would tell you that they have had to become as professional at "designing", trouble-shooting, and correcting registrations, as they are with their musical performances.  Those two things go pretty much hand-in-hand, in this business.

 

In one of my earlier replies in this thread, I mentioned other keyboards that allow the user extensive control over what all gets changed or remains the same when a registration gets loaded.  The CTK/WK-6XXX/7XXX keyboards covered in these sub-forums do allow some rudimentary control over certain aspects of Accompaniment and keyboard Scaling, when registrations are loaded.  See discussions of RegFltAcmp and RegFltScal in your particular keyboard's manual.  I believe the new CT-X models take these Registration Filters to a much deeper level.

 

- T -

 

[jeffn1]

Hello, T, thanks.  I am far from a pro with this stuff, trying to figure out the best way to approach different challenges.

 

I think I get it.  I guess you do not have to use up a "user tone" (or user rhythm) (unless you are editing something that cannot be done within a registration part).

 

Rather, you would just save the transpose offset in each registration part. 

 

Does that make sense(?).

 

Jeff

[- T -]

On 6/14/2019 at 1:37 PM, jeffn1 said:

Rather, you would just save the transpose offset in each registration part. 

 

Does that make sense(?).

Jeff

 

I would like to answer "Yes" to that question, if I knew better what you meant by the phrase "registration part".  If you mean the registrations that are used to set up the keyboard for different "sections" of the song, such as Inro, Verse-1, Chorus, Verse-2, Chorus, Outro etc. then you are correct.  However, since the term "part" has a very specific meaning on these keyboards, it is best to reserve its use, in these discussions, for those specific functions.  A "part" is actually a track or "Channel" in the keyboard's 32 Channel MIXER, and most have very specific functions, as defined by the keyboard's operating system, such as Channel-1 is the UPPER-1 Part, and provides the instrument or tone for the main right hand melody, while Channel-2 is the UPPER-2 Part and proviides a right hand dual or layer tone, and Channel-3 is the LOWER Part and usually provides some kind of left hand bass instrument.  Channel 4 is the Auto-Harmonize Part and provides a suitable harmony instrument for the UPPER-1 Part and so forth.  Each one of these "Parts" has a set of parameters that can be controlled manually, or automatically by various features of the keyboard: Part On/Off, Part Volume, Part Pan, etc.  Registrations are one of the features that automatically control the various settings for the various Mixer Parts, BUT . . . . and this is my entire point here: the Registration, itself, is a complete entity, the Registration, itself, does not have Parts.  A Registration is nothing more than a collection of pre-saved keyboard setup data, most of which is used to set up the various Mixer Parts when it, the Registration, is called-up (loaded); and now, more specific to your question: when you want to transpose the keyboard, you need only set that with the keyboard's Transpose function before you save the Registration.  The Transpose function will apply that transpose offset value globally to all of the Mixer Parts.  You do not need to set it manually, yourself, for each of the Mixer Parts.  The Registration, then, "remembers" that Transpose setting, and recalls it globally when it is loaded.

 

I hoped this helps.

 

- T -

 

[jeffn1]

Thanks. 

 

All I I meant by the word "part" was to distinguish each from each registration "bank".  On the left top of the registration section (in silkscreen print) it says "bank", then numbers 1-6 are written above the next six buttons, followed by the "store" button. I guess I could have just called it a "Registration".  (No need to respond to this).

[Jokeyman123]

Hhhhmmpphhh-unfortunately no help to you all, but the PX560 has been designed to turn on and off the global transpose setting for registrations-sorry to add to your misery, but I understand your pain. Guess I just made it worse, sorry. 

[jeffn1]

5 minutes ago, Jokeyman123 said:

Hhhhmmpphhh-unfortunately no help to you all, but the PX560 has been designed to turn on and off the global transpose setting for registrations-sorry to add to your misery, but I understand your pain. Guess I just made it worse, sorry. 

 

Hah!  Thanks.  Not too much misery here.  I can work around the issue, and I am happy with my two Casio keyboards.  (I suspect that this feature may make its way into lower end models.)